Joe Frazier (1971) V Muhammad Ali (1967)

Frazier in a very close fight.

 

Somehow because he didn't have the legs, he can take punches better? I am pretty sure it's because he filled out as a fighter. He wasn't as skilled as the prime one, but he had more intangibles.

You think it's so easy to keep the greatest HW pressure fighter off of you for 15 rounds? Ali was great but he was human. Look what Joe did to him in 1971; he gave Ali the biggest beating of his life and beat him convincingly. The fight wasn't close at all.

 

ali was 212 pounds for Williams, Folley & Terrell. He was 212 for Bonavena and 215 for FOTC.

 

Really? My mistake. Regardless, he seemed to be able to take a punch much better in his post-exile career. If you look he would roll with Frazier's left hook in their fights as opposed to Cooper's and others. I think it was the fact that he learned how to roll with punches better.

 

He's obviously referring to the fact that Cooper had him on his butt and he was never in that kind of trouble post-exile. Luckily his crafty trainer helped him through it.

 

No, he weighed more and was bigger due to age and the layoff. I mean he had more fat but it wasn't natural. I'm talking about filling out the way he did from the Banks, Moore, and Cooper fight. He looks like a goes from a boy to a man literally from the Cooper to Liston fight. And I'm not talking weight, I'm talking about naturally filling in. The scales will show little difference but you can tell from just looking at him. He weighed 3 pounds more for Frazier than he did Williams. Hardly a difference.

Lol logic can be a problem with people sometimes here. They get caught up in their own illusions or bias. Like Ali being filled out more made him take punches more. We're talking 3 pounds more, less conditioned, and with worse legs. Ali filled his structure out properly around 64. Ali "seems" to take punches better because not only did he have to post exile but he proved he could. He didn't just magically grow a better chin in 3 and a half years off :rofl

The poll is tied as of now, guess I'm going to give Ali the lead.

As for FOTC, do people really think the fight wasn't close? Ali was taking the opening rounds. The knockdown really made it decisive for Joe. If Ali wins the last round it's arguably a draw.

That's a myth. As for the Cooper fight. Ali was playing around trying to get his prediction right. He got caught by a hook he didn't see and got up at 4. That's around the time Ali's build was naturally filling out for him. The Banks knockdown was also a 190's pound 20 something Ali. Prime Ali of 66-67 had the conditioning, strength, timing, speed, and reflexes at maximum capabilities. Ali of 71 is slower with worse endurance and not the best timing. Oh yeah, he takes a hell of a better shot though. Those 3 and a half years let him grow out a better chin.

 

The facts are there! How can you deny the fact that he took a better punch post-exile. Compare the punchers he had to face compared to his pre-exile days. He took on those puncher's in the '70s with relative ease like Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, Foster etc. Liston was the biggest puncher he fought in the 60's and hit as hard or harder as those guys. Williams was shot and Patterson was injured.

See response above.

The fight wasn't close at all! Most people scored it 10-4-1 and 11-4 in favor of Frazier.

He was hurt bad in the Cooper fight. The Banks KD was because he was green and not completely filled out. He was heavier in the first Cooper fight than he was in '66.

 

He found enough energy helped by an extra 10 seconds rest and a few sniffs of illegal smelling salts. :yep

He was easier to knock down in his pre-exile days because he was on his toes more, planting the feet will absorb a punch better for a start.

 

I think the most popular score is 9-6 Frazier.

 

On balance Ali.

Of course it depends on the tactics used by either fighters, the size of the ring, the referee,the judging etc etc