Joe Frazier (1971) V Muhammad Ali (1967)

Ali "got up at four" against Cooper as if this proves he knew where he was.

 

How did Cooper get lucky in the first fight? The left hook was his Money Punch and he threatened with it all fight, how is it 'lucky' that it landed? :huh

The only lucky person that night was Clay:

1. Saved by the bell
2. Split glove 'incident' gave him an extra 10 seconds
3. Illegal smelling salts helped revive him.


...and yet you believe it was Cooper that was 'lucky'. What a dick.

 

I picked Frazier as i think he's awesome, but basically it's a 50/50 fight.

One thing to note, though. During ALL of Ali's fights in the 60's against game opponents, he used to dance the first 3-4 rounds before really opening up.

Given that Frazier is a slow starter who usually loses the first few rounds, that Ali strategy might backfire over the longrun. If Frazier wins rounds 2-4, Ali's going to have to do significantly better during the middle rounds than he did during FOTC.

 

You throw around words like "guranteed". What's your analysis on the fight?

 

Same here.

 

It's not so easy when Joe applies the fastest pressure in history and will be able to catch Ali when he warms up. Ali will steal the early rounds as Frazier is a slow starter. While Ali is in his toes, he is suspect to Joe's leaping left hook like he was in '71. Frazier can also attack from the mid range and this is where he could hurt Ali with that leaping left hook like he did in '71 and their other fights. Even a prime Ali didn't dance the full 15 and would become flat footed when the fight gets to round 8 or so when the pace of Frazier's attack starts to wear him down. Frazier will hurt Ali late in the fight and possibly floor him.

That's where Frazier will steal the fight and win a close decision.

 

I never said you say that he can dance a full 15. I am sayin that once he doesn't dance is when he'll get hurt. I favor mine versy strongly so I guess we agree to disagree and let the poll play out.

It's tied 13-13.

 

I think some people chalk this up as a stylistic issue, favoring Joe Frazier. While 1971 Frazier would have given Ali problems at any stage, he had his hands plenty full against a man who had only fought twice in nearly four years. Ali during the late 60's looks sharper, quicker, busier and more accurate to me.

 

Are you serious? Ali in his prime when he was naturally filled out took a punch just as well. How are "facts" there. You're arguing in theory. :rofl
Just because Ali took on more punches and proved that he could take a punch doesn't mean he couldn't in his pre-exile. So from 1967 to 1971 Ali's chin magically gets better from 3 and half years off?

This is all I need to know. 11-4? Are you kidding me? Bert Sugar, "It was a close fight. The Frazier knocked down sealed it." If you scored it 11-4 then it's clear you can't contain your bias. Comeback with your scorecard.

207 against Cooper. 212 1/2 against Williams and about 210 against London. As for the weight, I went over this. But I still believe that Ali filled out to his most right to the Liston fight. Even if his weight didn't change much he clearly looks bigger and stronger and thicker. He dwarfs and almost out-sizes Liston while liking like a skinny kid against Cooper. Besides, he got up against a hook he didn't see to the count of 4 against Cooper and other previous knockdowns he was young and below 200 pounds. When else did he get hurt afterwards?