Joe Frazier (1971) V Muhammad Ali (1967)

The thing is with this fight Ali was close to up for the first half of FOTC. The second half Frazier steals most of it.

Ali can't get away and Ali would get away and avoid Frazier long enough. I feel he can take enough of the last few rounds while winning and more of the first 9 from FOTC. Unless Ali gets silly or caught then he should be win a close decision. Ali from 66-67 is a complete different animal for Ali of FOTC. In fact, Ali's decline in the absence and for that fight is greater than Joe's declined to 71 to 74 in my opinion.

Ali's punch out-put is quite underrated. Marciano the ATG constant bomber recognizes Ali's terrific stamina and constant out-put. So he'll be moving more, sharper, quicker, and when he's not moving he will be punching more. He's not going to gassed and in half to win rounds and half to survive mode like from round 11 onwards in FOTC.

 

Sending someone to the hospital doesn't affect scoring. Frazier won a minimum of 9 rounds, and probably more. That's not a close fight, no matter what spin you want to put on it.

 

If Frazier did win nine rounds, then two of them were 10-8 ers in the must system. That's a 5-point win. Quite a big margin.

 

Now how come that was missing from your scorecard of the rematch?:nono Rd 2 in that fight there was arguably 10-8 for Ali making Ali's win somewhat clearer. Be fair, now.

 

But I never mentioned the rematch, you jumped on it as you couldn't take talking about Cooper I. No one's disputing Ali was much better than Cooper, but to say Henry was lucky in 63 is pathetic. Only one man had endless luck that night.

 

I haven't posted my card for the rematch have I? :good

 

Tell me what I posted about the Cooper fight that is a myth?

 

It's the fact that he went down from a guy like Cooper when he never went down against guys like Lyle, Shavers, Foreman, Foster late in his career. Look, Ali always had a good chin, but I think he took better punches in his post-exile career.

One of the judges in the fight scored it 11-4. I believe I scored it something like 9-5 or 10-5 for Frazier. i watched it many times, no need to score it again. Don't talk to me about bias kid, you've hated on Frazier ever since you've come to this board in just about every topic.

I wouldn't say he dwarfs Liston, that's an overstatement. Just because he got up at four doesn't mean he wasn't hurt. He wobbled right back into his corner and had to be revived by smelling salts. He was hurt big time against Frazier in there fights.

 

It should be pointed out that the Ali/Clay that we are talking about here, is the 1967 version. Not the 21 year old kid with 18 fights who fought Cooper in 1963, and barely weighed 206.

 

Joe Frazier 71 vs Muhammad Ali 67?

Over 12 rounds, I think Ali takes a unanimous but close decision like he did in the FOTC rematch. The main difference is that Ali in 1967 had the legs to dance more and work his right cross of the jab more effectively. This doesn't mean that I believe Ali would dance for the entire fight, because he never did for any one particular fight in his career. Joe loses the early rounds and is out-quicked by 67 Ali, closing the gap in a losing effort.

Over 15 rounds, I'd say 71 Frazier takes the 67 Ali, and wins by UD. Frazier would again lose the early rounds against Ali, but in a 15 round fight, stamina would be an issue, and Frazier's pressure would get the better of Ali.

Frazier said he was ready for Ali in 67 and 68, but Durham and Futch made sure that their fighter was going to be paid, which is why the actual fight happened in 1971.

 

This.

 

Right, he got caught playing around trying to get his prediction to be right. It's not a "fact" that he took punches better from post exile. He just had more chance to prove it. Arguing that he grew a better chin when off 3 and half years from boxing is rather senseless.

Blah you don't know me then. I love Frazier he's my second favorite fighter. Doesn't mean I have to be under some of the beliefs others do about it. I haven't hated him on every topic I've been at you just notice the ones where I disagree with him. How can you even associate me with hating my 2nd favorite fighter? The only other time I disagreed with him beating someone was in my Marciano thread. I stand by that. You take everything personal, even then I was "knocking Joe." Blah. As for the fight, I think I scored it 8-5-2 or something. That 11-4 judge is a horrendous score. 10-5 Is rather generous too. That's basically give every very close round to Joe.

Right, in which he magically grew a better chin for. :nut

He dwarfed Liston. No overstatement. He looked like a boy becoming a man going into that fight.