Joe Frazier 1971 v Muhammad Ali 1974

I like Frazier by Decision.

 

The second fight was close enough even with Ali 'Ruizing' his way to victory. No version of post-exile Ali would beat 71 Frazier.

 

Frazier

 

I have to agree,

As the 70's rolled on and both men aging, I think Ali maintained more of his abilities while Frazier began to decline. In 1971 however, Joe was the slightly better of the two. Ali would need to be in his 1967 form to beat FOTC Frazier.

 

frazier

 

Frazier by a wider margin than in the actual first fight.

 

Frazier 71 was on top of his game, He would have defeated a past-prime Ali

 

I'll go with Ali as this needs a bit of balance. I think Frazier's decline between the two fights in general is very overstated. That he actually had one of his career's best perfomances against Quarry afterwards is such an awkward fact that Quarry's actually been called shot for that one on this forum.

I don't think the second fight was that close either points wise or in general. Ali controlled it for the large part. Sure, he held quite a lot, but he did that in the first fight as well. And if you want to see holding used as a tactic you might as well watch Dempsey-Tunney or Young-Foreman. The 12 round distance did favour Ali, though. You need a bit of faith to claim that Ali at any time post exile could keep up with FOTC Frazier for 15 rounds. That's for sure.

 

The second fight was a ref's fight ... Ali held like crazy and Perez allowed it. Another ref, another fight ...

 

"'71 Frazier"

Does that mean there were different versions?

That perhaps the '71 version was stronger than the '73 version?

 

Nice.

I wouldn't call Ali's holding and hugging "Ruizing" because John would complain to the ref every chance he got. Before the round, during the action, after the round and in between clinces, John Ruiz cryed and whinned more than any heavyweight I've seen. Ruiz was the worst heavyweight in history in terms of illegal wrestling tactics, with Foreman and Lennox Lewis clearly behind him.

At least Ali didn't rise up on his toes every time Frazier threw a body shot, to make it look like it was a low blow. This is one of Ruiz' signature tactics as an excuse to win fights cheaply on fouls. Ali certainly did enough holding, hugging, mugging and pushing down on Frazier's neck to warrant at least a one point deduction, maybe two. Perez never warned Ali about his tactics and Frazier said the "Greatest" never landed any hard punches, except the right hand shot that had him in trouble in the second round.

Still, I don't believe the sport of boxing could allow Ali to lose two fights to Frazier. Ali did look lighter and slightly better than he did in the FOTC, but he didn't show much against Frazier in terms of offense in the rematch, and it might have been a different outcome over 15 rounds. Ali seemed to be tiring while Frazier still had plenty left in his gas tank.

 

Ha ha, yes much stronger than the February 73 version. You read me like a book mate.

Maybe even 1970 was peak Frazier.

 

This is true, but he didn't quite have that extra relentless energy and his speed had dropped a notch. It was a fine performance and he proved he something left in the tank at that stage. I think this version of Joe had more patience (which was probably down to added years).

 

Yeah, Frazier no longer put on the same extremely relentless pressure. To say anything else would be wrong. But I just get tired of people talking like he was hopelessly past it.

And I'm fully aware that it's sounds silly to claim that Ali was better at 32 than at 29, but to me he just plain looks better in the rematch and it's not only down to Frazier not being quite the same IMO. I could go on with some reasons as to why Ali possibly had improved, but for now I'll just leave it with that he looked better. I'd give that Ali a pretty good chance of beating FOTC Frazier over 12. But over 15...