Joe Frazier 1971 v Muhammad Ali 1974

How you figure? Really? Ali won six rounds (1, 2, 3, 6, 9, 11) clearly. Without a doubt. Rd 2 could have been 10-8 in a 10 point must. Rd 4 and 12 were closer, but there is no way they both belong to Frazier. 8-4 or 7-4-1 are the most reasonable scores.

What's you score, then?

 

I know that Red Smith as well as Jimmy Cannon (I think) gave it to Frazier. Was anyone of them the reporter for NY Times?

 

One of the magazines used to have an award the "Muhammad Ali: How To Lose With Class Trophy" even in that dept, he was overrated.

 

redneck smith on ali - forget it. ali was a better fighter in 1974 then he was when he fought in 1971 cuz he had 3 years of fighting under his belt by then - he only had 6 months fighting for FOTC.

 

nonsense, if anything he favoured frazier, the was a point when frazier was stunned and ready to go and the ref inexplicably stepped in and stopped the action

 

I am not saying I thought Joe won. I am saying plenty of other people say he won that fight. I am going to go ahead and score it and I'll get back to you.

 

In my opinion Frazier had a sharp decline and was not really close to the Prime fighter we saw in the FOTC. Ali stayed about the same throughout his post-exile career until about '75. This had a lot to do with the outcomes of their final two fights. I am going to score the second fight myself and then get back to this subject.

 

I thought Frazier might've won the 2nd fight too, or at least got a draw. Ali threw more combinations, but I felt Frazier landed the cleaner, more solid punches. Don't have a scorecard handy, though.

 

This fight was very close and could've been awarded to either fighter.

Here are my results:

Round 1: Ali 10-9
Round 2: Ali 10-9
Round 3: Ali 10-9
Round 4: Frazier 10-9
Round 5: Frazier 10-9
Round 6: Ali 10-9
Round 7: Frazier 10-9
Round 8: Frazier 10-9
Round 9: Ali 10-9
Round 10: Frazier 10-9
Round 11: Frazier 10-9
Round 12: Ali 10-9

The fight was a draw: 114-114

What this shows me is that a Prime Frazier clearly beats a '72-'74 version of Ali. No question about it. Even if you had Ali winning, it was close and there's no doubt that a prime Frazier beats any Post-Exile Ali. I feel if the second fight were 15 rounds then Frazier would have won a decision.

 

Plenty? I've heard of two, both writing for the same paper, one of which (Red Smith) absolutely hated Ali's guts. I think even Futch and Joe himself is less biased in this case.

For me, giving rd 4 and 11 to Frazier is terrible scoring IMO. Rd 4 could be scored even, but that's about it.

 

For every Red Smith there was always Harry Carpenter: "This is so much better than their first fight".


There was one more who scored it for Frazier, Robert Thornton I think but a wide majority voted for Ali, who was the rightful winner. Our Enery had it 8-3-1 for his old nemesis, althought he commented how far back Frazier had gone since 71, something he noticed in the Bugner fight. :hey