Joe Frazier, 1971 vs Sonny Liston 1960.

Frazier and Holyfield are also my two favorites with Liston coming in third. Great minds think alike.

 

As for the bout, Liston stops a game But overmatched Frazier in a war. Maybe around the 6th.

 

Well, that caused some serious divide.... my third favourite is Patterson.

 

He's my 4th .

 

Well, all would move down one if Charles is counted as a heavyweight. And now I'm kinda wondering who I'd have after Patterson. Usyk, Quarry, Chuvalo, Cooper, Louis, Liston etc; are all contenders.

 

I posted my top ten a while back. Let me see if I can find it.

 

Ali is probably my number five now. I still love him but I'm much more fascinated in the stories of Patterson, Liston, and Frazier, and I love Holyfield's style (Frazier as well) heart, and do or die attitude.

 

No Williams? Wow! Mine is in that same thread but I'd probably change mine. Most likely to something like this:

#10. George Chuvalo
#9. Riddick Bowe
#8. Joe Louis
#7. Bert Cooper
#6. Tom Sharkey
#5. Jerry Quarry
#4. Oleksandr Usyk
#3. Floyd Patterson
#2. Evander Holyfield
#1. Joe Frazier

 

I'm a fan of Williams but not a huge one tbh. I only come to his defense because he is the most underrated contender here, and it sickens me. Everyone has nothing but contempt for Williams. This post describes it perfectly.

especially Choklab (and Klompton to a slightly lesser extent) who takes every effort he can to slant Williams to the point of bringing him up in threads that have absolutely nothing to do with him. Even otherwise fair-minded posters like Bokaj and Philly fail to show any objection towards Williams.

 

I see Frazier being in a world of trouble very early. Can imagine Sonny going on the attack first out, catching Joe fast and seeing a near damn repeat of the Foreman slaughter. If,, and its a big if, Joe can survive it early, then the later it goes the more chance I give him.
Liston was bad mutha, he's one I see doing that to the Smoke.

 

FOTC Joe beats him. Dont know how TBH but he beats him

 

I’ve always favored Liston in this fantasy matchup. But over the years I have it being a lot closer than previously. Joe might give a good account of himself. One of Listons strengths was his tremendous left jab and long reach. While this is a huge asset, Joe Frazier was one of the best ever at slipping the jab then coming up to land a good left to the head or to the body. In addition he had tremendous hand speed and workrate and heart. I don’t see Liston battering Joe the way Foreman did. Sonny didn’t utilize the looping hooker-cuts that George did and depended more on strait punches which George didn’t. I also think that Frazier was better in 1971 than in 1973.. That said I still favor sonny but it would be a very tough fight

 

I never said he was. I said he is too strong and powerful in both mitts for Joe. I stand by it. Many would agree.

I know you are immensely invested in George and i know you see Liston as a direct competitor but respect where it's due. George himself was in awe of Liston's strength, power and ability. Sure George was young and impressionable but Liston was also over the hill.

Yes Liston was a boxer/puncher but he was lethal in close. Have a look at Liston's use of uppercuts against a bobbing and weaving opponent in Patterson, particularly the rematch. Have a look at how short Liston's hook was that began the devastation in the first Patterson fight. He wasn't afraid afraid to let his hands go in close and was a better short puncher than Foreman. His punches were more compact overall full stop.

If he hit harder one would not want to live on the difference. There's virtually nothing between them.

If the two so called tomato cans said Foreman was more powerful you'd be thrusting forth their opinions as if they were gospel.

Liston's chin was extremely good. Most observers accept Ali II was a dive. Some like to live on the two Ali results as showing Liston lacked heart but most see thru that.

Where did all this happen? Again i didn't say Liston was like Foreman i said he was too strong and powerful for Joe just like Foreman was. I'm not sure how you got so much more out of it.

Why would people say he was just like Foreman in a match against Frazier but run from it with a match against Holmes?

The simple fact of the matter is that Liston had more skills than Foreman and more stamina as well. He was also extremely strong, durable and immensely powerful. Foreman was different but he too had his advantages and traits.

Both were great fighters and absolute monsters.

 

George go back and review the two Patterson fights. Liston makes some very good use of the uppercut against a guy bobbing and weaving and keeping low.

 

That's it,, I love Joe but there are 2 fighters he's tailor made for, Foreman and Liston. He simply can't beat either one with his style and physical attributes.