Joe Frazier 1971...with hindsight

Really and truly, the retirement would have been the best thing: go out on top, with health still intact.

BUT: Joe was way too much of a fighter to do that. Even if he had, he'd have come back a year later. He was poor with his finances as well.

Foreman was a surprise at the time. Ali was still seen as the main opponent in waiting. It's unfortunate for Joe that he stumbled into George before an Ali rematch took place. He'd have had more left in the tank. If he'd beaten Ali a second time --which, with some decent judges and a good ref, was not out of the question-- he could have retired then. Or, if he lost a close one, fought the rubber match.

It's just bad luck that he got matched with Foreman, who was built perfectly to beat him. I think Joe would have taken the Nortons, Lyles, and Shavers' of the day, so it was just unfortunate that he crossed paths with Foreman before having the chance to mop up the division a bit more.

 

I agree.

Everyone acts like it is a foregone conclusion that Ali would have won any post FOTC fight with Frazier. But although I'd favor Ali, Frazier still had a good chance to win, especially if the referee did not allow Ali to hold all night long.

 

Some good points have been made and good ideas put forth.

The main object would be to capitalize on the FOTC win and get Joe out of the game while he was on top. At that time, as has been stated above, the division had been pretty well cleaned out, with the Frazier-Ali rematch the only highly anticipated big money fight on the horizon. I recall hearing at the time that for the rematch Frazier wanted the lion's share of the purse, which is customary for the defending champion, while Ali wanted another 50-50 split. After defeating Ron Stander, Joe announced on TV that he was going to wait for a promoter to come up with a 3.5M guarantee for him. In hindsight, the Frazier camp might have taken a more proactive and public voice in negotiating financial terms. Had the talks stalled by a certain time, move on - either retiring, or taking on lesser contenders to keep active. At the time, some sportswriters were urging Joe to go on a barnstorming tour through the division. Rust from inactivity really hurts fighters of the Frazier mold. The relative inactivity for Joe between FOTC and Foreman did him no good whatsoever.

Had the rematch with Ali been made much earlier, it may have turned out as it had in real time, but I don't believe that would have been a foregone conclusion. Following FOTC, **** Young of the Daily News wrote that Frazier should be a 4-1 favorite in the rematch. Ring Magazine wrote that 'if they fought 100 more times, the result would always be the same - a Frazier victory.' Strangely, I only remember Joe Louis picking Ali to win the rematch. As champion, Frazier would have some intangibles working in his favor: he was still the undefeated, defending champion who had already beaten Ali; he still carried an aura of invincibility (which was obliterated by Foreman); he would be in the driver's seat in setting conditions for the fight. While none of these may have ultimately mattered once the bell rung, he would not have been carrying any psychological scars he may have had from the Foreman knockout. In any event, I believe Joe would have done at least as well against Ali earlier as he did in real time. Also, remember that Ali didn't look all that sharp until his Quarry rematch. Unlike Joe, he had seized the moment and fought himself into top form. In a worst case scenario, had Joe lost the title to Ali in the rematch, it probably would have been by a close decision. Then had the rubber match gone the same way, Joe's legacy would have suffered less damage than it did.

So to recap, I would have Joe take a couple fights in 1971, all the while publicly calling for a certain percentage of the Ali rematch. Keep him active, focused, and in condition. Try to get a Frazier-Quarry rematch for the title. (Jerry never fought for the undisputed title.) People may then be talking of how sharp Joe looked against Jerry (ala 1974) in 1972. Patterson may have been a good high-profile, low-risk fight for Joe. If the Ali rematch financial terms cannot be met, (as with Robinson-Basilio III) then go out on top with Yank Durham alive and happy that Joe did what Yank wanted.

 

Typically, after such a huge win, a fighter would go on a "victory tour" of sorts.

He'd go on all the television talk shows to be interviewed. He might tour the world. Make guest appearances on scripted TV shows.

The problem with trying to capitalize on the Ali win was that Joe Frazier was severely damaged in that bout. As was mentioned, he took a major beating (similar to have been badly injured in a car wreck). His kidneys were damaged. He had hypertension (dangerously high blood pressure). He was so sick there were rumors he was dead. He spent the first month after the fight in the hospital.

All of these things prevented him from going on a "victory tour." In fact, the long hospital stay sort of reinforced the growing feeling that Ali had "really" won the fight of the century. (Keep in mind, unless you watched it on closed circuit, most Americans didn't see the fight for three years - when films were shown on Wide World of Sports before their rematch.)

Three months after his loss to Frazier, Ali was back in the ring stopping Jimmy Ellis and then Buster Mathis - the two guys Frazier "won" his title against.

And, after Frazier healed, and he went back to the gym, his trainer Yank Durham wasn't sure Frazier could beat anyone. That's why Frazier fought Terry Daniels and Ron Stander in 1972. There were stories written where the writers speculated as to why Yank was approaching Frazier's comeback like the fighter was starting his career all over again against really inferior opposition. And it's because Durham felt those were only guys Frazier could confidently beat at the time - and the Stander fight was a toe-to-toe slugfest.

So, if you're plotting how you would've managed Frazier after the Ali win, you have to also consider that Frazier didn't get out of the hospital for a month and wasn't in any shape to fight anyone in almost a year.

It drastically limits what you're able to do.