Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

I think that is a bit too simplistic. I wonder how Ali's more fanatical followers would react if Holmes, or Berbick had taunted and ridiculed Ali, by saying things like " your half ******ed, you can't even speak coherently, your old, your useless. I'm gonna enjoy beating the **** out of you." Because by that time even Ali's people knew he was showing signs of his illness, ( I think Pacheco was the only one with the decency to quit, rather than sanction an ill guy fighting on when he shouldn't ) they just tried to cover it up, to get their share of the money.

After all according to you its all about winning. Not respect.

 

I don't think there would be much issue about anything Ali said about Frazier if it wasn't for the fact that Ali is idolized by legions of followers all over the world, or at least portrayed by the media as someone truly worthy of being idolized .... for his alleged humanitarian principles and stand for 'freedom and justice'.

Calling Frazier an 'Uncle Tom' and a 'Gorilla' are just two of Ali's racist or ill-thought utterances among many. And far from his most cringe-worthy or embarrassing.

But anyone who can get their head around the simple truth that Ali was a bit of a moron shouldn't get too upset about it.

When I was a teenager I would have done everything to defend those critcisms of Ali, or flat-out deny his obvious stupidity. But then you grow up and realize that apart from being a great fighter, he was just a clown with a big mouth with some seriously dubious (or abhorrent) beliefs.
You also begin to note that for every old establishment figure or white racist who victimized him, there were two or three fair-minded people who gave him far too much of an easy ride just because of who he was.

 

In fairness I think the race angle gets over played somewhat.

I'm sure the Uncle Tom thing has racist undertones, but I'm equally sure the Gorilla stuff was more a personal attack by Ali who tried to portray Joe as ugly and stupid.

Not only did Ali say Joe was just a crude slugger with nothing more than a left hook, and things like if you throw a punch at Joe Frazier's face and it misses he gets offended, he also ridiculed Joe's deep south accent, and his limited vocabulary, and his speech delivery.

I think this is borne out by Joe's attitude years later when Ali's health deteriorated badly and Joe asked " who's the bumbling idiot now?" or words to that effect.

I don't think Frazier ever accused Ali of being racist towards him, just that he crossed the line with the personal attacks.

Which is why I asked in the post above how Ali's more diehard fans would have reacted if Holmes or Berbick had chosen to ridicule the version of Ali they faced on a personal level.

 

On the contrary, this is the one instance in which Ali's trash talking and mind games had the opposite of the desired effect. And that's because Frazier is too much of a ****ing mental spartan to be phased by anything, including scare tactics and belittlement. It only made him fight harder and perhaps reach a potential beyond what he would otherwise never had reached.

What the **** is this **** of a thread anyhow? You can't judge the man by his fans

 

To keep it in context I was responding to a statement that "Ali never did anything bad".

How bad he beat her you and I don`t really know. We can all agree its bad to hit a women though right?

 

Its bad. On the other hand I don`t think Joe ever claimed to be a Minister. I also dont`t remember Frazier speaking at any KKK rallies.

 

Thats cause he didnt..And Yellowmustard likes to talk out of his ass..I mean cmon.."The womans hall of fame"..this guy trolls more than anyone else I see on this forum!!!..90% of what he says are lies and the sad part is I think he believes himself cause nobody else does...Bottle line Yellow is a joke!atsch:yepatsch

 

Makes two of you then. Correct spelling= HONOURABLE.

 

Not in their version of OUR language it isn't. They even spell colour color.

I wish they had created their own, instead of trying to *******ize ours.

 

Ali's insults Frazier personally, saying he is as ugly as a Gorilla, and half witted. Yellowmustard thinks that is funny.

Joe Frazier insults Ali personally when he becomes a semi coherent, shuffling, shaking wreck. Yellowmustard gets all indignant.

Yellowmustard is too imbecilic to realise both instances were distasteful.