Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

Alternatively I just don't hang off the nuts of filthy rapists, as you seem to.

Whether they be " famous " boxers, or from a sink estate in Britain. All rapists are nonce cases, no ifs or buts, just subhuman filth.

 

The Man..

 

Is it okay if I hang off the nuts of murderers, serial wife beaters, gangsters, hoodlums and the other fine folk that make up some of the most talked-about boxers on these pages?
Just asking.

 

If you are clueless as to the fundamental difference between those you have mentioned above, and *** offenders, you are destined to remain so.

 

Ali saying that "No Vietcong ever called me ******" was NOT his justification for not goin to war, it was just one of the many many reasons he gave about the subject. Politics and Boxing just dont belong together, not in the way your pushing the two together so get over yourself!

 

A little light on Ali's draft problem. Most of what I'm reading here is myth.

Ali received a draft notice in 1966. He appealed it on the basis of being a conscientious objector. His appeals were denied three times and in 1967 he was ordered to report for induction. He refused to be inducted and in June, 1967 was convicted of draft evasion, given a 5 year prison sentence and a $10,000 fine.

Lets take a closer look at this.

Ali could easily have been classified as a conscientious objector if he had simply kept his mouth shut as he was told to do by his NOI lawyers.

Under U.S. law, a conscientious objector must oppose all wars, not just some.
Ali repeatedly made public statements indicating he didn't fall into that category. He said among other things that he would fight in a war if it was approved by Elijah Muhammad (Head of the NOI). He also indicated that he wouldn't be drafted because the Viet Cong had never insulted him personally.

Again, if he had kept his mouth shut he would have been excused from the draft, just as thousands of other young men were.

As far as standing by his convictions goes, Ali told Sugar Ray Robinson that he would rather go and not ruin his career but Elijah Muhammad wouldn't "let" him. He also said he was "real scared" of Elijah Muhammad.

 

Shove your ego up your dirtbox, and read the post below yours. It puts your revisionist clap trap to shame. It is as near to the truth as makes no difference. Ali DID dodge the draft for personal reasons, not because he had any clue about the political machinations, he DID say he would willingly fight for the NOI. That in itself was bollox, as the NOI was never going to be in a position to make war with anyone, so he was safe there.

He simply didn't want to risk being killed in what was essentially a guerilla war as far as the Vietcong were concerned.

If being drafted into the army was good enough for Joe Louis and S.R.Robinson, then it was good enough for Ali.

 

I have an issue with ONE POSTER ,you have issues with everyone.

Before you talk more **** about a subject you know nothing about, I'll enlighten you.
Mendoza challenged me saying he was coming to the UK , I accepted and asked for his flight number, and time of his arrival.
Despite repeated requests, via pm, and a public thread on here , he did not respond, until he was safely back in the States.

Another poster an American sent me a pm offering to stand in for me I declined via return pm, and told him I wanted to take care of it myself.

His name here is "Power Puncher," if you are sufficiently interested in the truth ,[I've seen little evidence of it so far,] you can contact him to verify my statement.

I don't know how much boxing if any you have done but I find it highly distasteful to call a professional boxer a coward.
Then again you are very free with personal insults aren't you?

I've read some of your posts and knew that sooner or later we would clash.

Bill Clinton was a scholar at Oxford when he made his first concrete moves to avoid the draft.

He wrote a highly incriminating letter thanking a Governor for ,
"saving him from the draft"
Here is part of his letter to the head of the Draft.



"Dear Colonel Holmes, I am sorry to be so long in writing. I know I promised to let you hear from me at least once a month, and from now on you will, but I have had to have some time to think about this first letter. Almost daily since my return to England I have thought about writing, about what I want to and ought to say. First, I want to thank you, not just for saving me from the draft, but for being so kind and decent to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been."



"When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way left in which I could possibly, but not positively, avoid both Vietnam and resistance. Going on with my education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to join ROTC. I am back here, and would have been at Arkansas Law School, because there is nothing else I can do. In fact, I would like to have been able to take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law school or graduate school and how to be putting what I have learned to use. But the particulars of my personal life are not nearly as important to me as the principles involved".

Unlike Ali, Clinton had the political ,and intellectual nous and contacts to avoid the draft without the prospect of facing five years imprisonment.
Also, unlike Ali ,he did not have the balls to be prepared to take the legal consequences for his actions.
How many young Americans of all races and colours knew where Vietnam was geographically?
And what importance should we attach to that anyway?

It was a badly thought out and unjust war based on the Domino principle which has since been discredited.

A powerful country ,[the US] backing and holding up a corrupt regime an action for which they have a very long history.

You have an anger management problems Old Son, not so much a short fuse as no fuse at all , you are a hand -grenade , not only waiting to go off, but eagerly anticipating it.

I'd like to return to peaceful exchanges with you but fear it is only a matter of time before "ground - hog day" reappears .

 

You can underline whatever you like. The enlarged part is the pertinent part. Clinton was actively fighting against the Vietnam war.

As for the US backing and holding up corrupt regimes, I think you should consider Britain's stance and history on that kind of thing.

As for me referring to someone who dodges the draft a coward, thats my privelege, and if that offends you, I'm sure you'll manage to live with it.

As has been stated Ali did say that he would willingly fight in a war if what he called " The Honourable " Elijah Muhammad told him to.

NO conscientious objections there then.

I have no interest in your feud with Mendoza, other than I found your rants at him extremely funny, with all that " show me a lie I've told and I'll show you ten of yours " nonsense.

As for " ground hog day " isn't that some silly film? I have no interest in them, in fact the last time I went to a cinema, Yul Brynner had hair.

All wars are unjust, and the only 2 reasons for them are greed and power. The second world war was only due to Hitlers greed in occupying other countries, and raping their wealth to increase Germany's.

 

Robinson got out of the Army as soon as he could, it's a matter of record.

Ali would have had an easy promoting morale if he had served ,just as Louis did .

Ali said if the Nation Of Islam called it a holy war he would fight, they did not ,and he did not ,that's it end of.

 

I'll manage to live with anything you say because I don't attach any importance to it.

There was a documentary on Ali's court case recently, you should have watched it, it might have informed you a bit.

You take a post made by another as gospel because it suits your agenda , ever heard of primary sources?The poster who gave his input refers to Ali as a "scumbag ,"and ,[until you came along ,]had no peer as an Ali hater

Thanks for the history lesson, but I think you will find that the Second World War originated as a direct consequence of the Versailles Treaty of May 1919.


On the Mendoza front ,Mendoza is a habitual liar who does what many liars do, reverses it.

After calling me one many times I finally challenged him to produce ONE LIE I've made on this Forum.

Despite repeated requests he has not done so, that would tell a sane ,objective man something.

I can give many examples of his mendacity but will refrain from doing so because your opinion is of absolutely no consequence to me.

You just carry on ranting at everyone who even mildy disagrees with you.

Perhaps one day you will enlighten us as to where all this petulant rage comes from?

Has life treated you badly my old mate?

Remember I am always here for you.



If only as a target, one of many.


Q.When you are alone ,do you argue with yourself?

 

If only I could remember my PW on CH Boxing.atsch

 

Does your presumptuousness come naturally, or have you worked a lifetime to achieve it?

I don't care when Ali's court case was aired on TV. Like you I was a young man when Ali was ranting about the NOI, and his allegiance to Elijah Muhammad, and I was quite capable of understanding what he was saying. He said he would be prepared to fight in ANY war if told to do so by his " leader " not specifically Vietnam. That was a joke anyway, what were they going to assemble, a few thousand hoods with dark glasses and Saturday Night Specials?

As for the poster referring to Ali as a scumbag, that is his business, not mine. I have total respect for Ali's 2 ring careers, but not too much for Ali the man, despite his becoming an ambassador for peace as he became older.

The Versailles Treaty had no impact on the German economy at all after the First World War, and the land they " ceded " was only what they had taken on the grounds that it was historically Germanic.

Hitler's aim was to establish a New Order of absolute Nazi German hegemony in continental Europe, and to that end he needed " living space " for the Germanic people. He may well have attacked the Treaty of Versailles but that was NOT why he invaded other European countries.

I'm glad we have one thing in common. Total disregard for the others opinions.

Do keep playing armchair psychologist, it amuses me.