Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Yellowmustard, Nov 4, 2013.


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  1. lepinthehood

    lepinthehood When I'm drinking you leave me well alone banned Full Member

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    i dont have sympathy for joe, for what reason. he gave ali some serious damage in his fights, his quiet nature than animalistic nature in the ring was great. but ali was a bit of a ****.
     
    lepinthehood, Nov 4, 2013
    lepinthehood, Nov 4, 2013
    #16
  2. Yellowmustard

    Yellowmustard Guest

    Several people ( Eddie Futch, George Foreman and Joe himself) has said he did not know what Uncle Tom really meant. He thought it was something dirty. Like a peeping Tom or something. Research it.

    I wanna see some proof what Joe could talk good. I mean like video evidence. I don't care about some playboy interview or w/e. I need something real time. You can't tell anything from a magazine transcript. Ali had a interview with some magazine in couple years ago. You would think he had no sickness. Prove to me that Joe was a well spoken. Mumble is no accent, its just mumble.

    I can write a 2000 page book on how Ali helped the underprivileged. Helping Unwanted/ Mentally Handicapped children. Frazier does not even compare. He is not even in the same ball park.

    Joe said he forgave him several times, then still preceded to make fun of him and say how he was treated unfair. Its all a joke man. The dude put down his trainer. The guy who made him who he is. Sickens me that in our society, we glorify being sensitive.
     
    Yellowmustard, Nov 4, 2013
    Yellowmustard, Nov 4, 2013
    #17
  3. Yellowmustard

    Yellowmustard Guest

    Joe didn't say it publicly. His explanation for why/how he help Ali was visiting Nixon and telling him he would beat Ali.
     
    Yellowmustard, Nov 4, 2013
    Yellowmustard, Nov 4, 2013
    #18
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He said it publicly over and over and over again. He said it publicly a multitude of times. I've just re-read Ghosts of Manilla and Fight of the Century and both Mark Kram and Mike Arkush are clear on that.

    As to Joe Frazier "not knowing what Uncle Tom meant", I googled, "Joe Frazier didn't know what Uncle Tom Meant" and got ONE link on the God-given internet. This thread. So what research have you done? Where did you read about all these people (inexplicably) claiming that Joe Frazier didn't understand this?

    Do you have a source you can quote us?
     
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2013
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2013
    #19
  5. Yellowmustard

    Yellowmustard Guest

    Both of those guys have been proven to be false. Kram was one shady guy. I heard alot of bad things about him. Show me some proof how he publicly defended Ali during his exile.

    And the uncle tom stuff, look at documentaries like Facing Ali and Champions Forever for start. Going to try to find videos.

    (Apparently I have to be here for a while to post links. Watch Ali, Frazier, Norton & Holmes on Donahue Show on youtube. 16:35)
     
    Yellowmustard, Nov 4, 2013
    Yellowmustard, Nov 4, 2013
    #20
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Proven how and by whom?

    In what regard?

    Like what, from who?

    Why? I haven't stated that he did, and I don't see how the point impacts the arguemnt?

    I suspect that he's joking, but it could be the case that he didn't know what an Uncle Tom was. I didn't know when I first heard it either. I'm sure the meaning was not lost on him.
     
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2013
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2013
    #21
  7. Yellowmustard

    Yellowmustard Guest

    Go read about why Kram got fired from Sports Illustrated. He grow up during those times and didn't know what a Tom was? Why do you think that was? Here is another article on the matter. Just add the www

    esquire.com/features/what-ive-learned/wil0104foreman
     
    Yellowmustard, Nov 4, 2013
    Yellowmustard, Nov 4, 2013
    #22
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Why can't you just tell me?

    And why can't you answer my other questions about Kram and Arkush?

    Because he had very little education and was from one of the poorest areas in America? Why do you think it was?



    On what matter? There are two mentions of Joe Frazier in that article.

    1) When I won the title against Joe Frazier, it was everything I ever worked for.


    2) I love Joe Frazier. He's been an original from day one. A few years back, Joe, Muhammad, and I did a video in England. After the taping, we were at a charity dinner with some of the royal family. They were serving lamb chops with mint jelly -- beautiful food. The waiter asked, "Can I get you anything else?" And Joe said, "I want some more green jelly." The waiter said, "Do you mean mint sauce?" And Joe said, "Same thing." And I thought, Some people put on a face for you and a face for someone else. But this man has only one face. "Same thing." If you understood what he said, why did you need to correct him?
     
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2013
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2013
    #23
  9. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    Your really not that big on irony are you Mustard?

    Watching that Joe was obviously never going to dignify Ali's remark so he makes a joke of it and says " I never looked through no windows " and gets the laugh he wanted.

    I think you are comparing Joe's deep south accent, compared to Ali's quicksilver tongue and jumping to the wrong conclusion. i:e that Joe was stupid.
     
    Foxy 01, Nov 4, 2013
    Foxy 01, Nov 4, 2013
    #24
  10. Yellowmustard

    Yellowmustard Guest

    That one face he put on was of a bitter old men who could never understand the truth. That Ali was just better at him. Not only at boxing but on every single aspect of life.

    I read an article about Kram but can't find it. It was written by SI so I don't know why. Maybe Kram threaten legal action.

    Joe was not joking.
     
    Yellowmustard, Nov 4, 2013
    Yellowmustard, Nov 4, 2013
    #25
  11. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I remember seeing a video interview on an old VHS tape with Joe where he said that he didn't know what an Uncle Tom meant, and that he thought it meant something like Peeping Tom. Was he being dead serious? Hard to say. He said it with a chuckle.
    To ask me to provide an exact source is asking the impossible, as I saw it many, many years ago.
     
    fists of fury, Nov 4, 2013
    fists of fury, Nov 4, 2013
    #26
  12. jaymon112

    jaymon112 MARVELOUS Full Member

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    FelixTrinidad :lol:
     
    jaymon112, Nov 4, 2013
    jaymon112, Nov 4, 2013
    #27
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    To be clear, you've arrived on this forum to tell me that Muhammad Ali was better at Joe Frazier at every single aspect of life? :lol: **** off you idiot.

    But yeah, Frazier was definitely not as great a fighter as Ali. And he was extremely bitter about some of the things that happened. This is well known. I'd have to say that everything else you've said is a bit weird at best, and shows the same sort of bitterness that Frazier displayed, ironically.

    Uh huh.
     
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2013
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2013
    #28
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I banned him like fifty times when I was a moderator :-( Literally.
     
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2013
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2013
    #29
  15. Yellowmustard

    Yellowmustard Guest

    Why you cussing homie?. You mad cause I'm right.

    I have no bitterness. Just never felt sorry for Joe.

    SI fired Kram in 1977 for gross misconduct after questions arose that Kram had been paid off for positive spins with certain stories (including a flattering feature about Don King's ill-fated heavyweight box-off). That's all I remember.
     
    Yellowmustard, Nov 4, 2013
    Yellowmustard, Nov 4, 2013
    #30
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