Joe Frazier cleans up, today!

Don't know if frazier would clean out the HW division today but he would certainly be a force to be reckoned with. Many HW's today would have a serious problem with Frazier's constant bobbing and weaving as well as his nonstop punching...particularly to the body which seems to be a lost art today. The K brothers have done well in todays HW seen but neither one of them faced a fighter with the tenacity and will of Joe Frazier, not to mention his pressure and volume punching. Joe would take many heavies today out of thier comfort zone and make them fight every minute of every round, whether he won or not. Sure the K brothers are big and can hit but are they willing to trade with Frazier over the long haul, especially if Joe can evade the big blows and get inside? Frazier took hellacious shots from George Foreman and kept getting up. He also took hundreds of clean punches from Ali who I always felt was somewhat underrated as a puncher and kept coming back for more. He has a warriors heart if nothing else and a never say die attitude. I think too much is made of size today in the HW division. This isn't wrestling. A fighter has gloves on and has to punch with them. No wrestling or kicking or tackling a man to the ground if he's a better puncher. If any of today's big boys don't take Joe outta there early, they're all in for a long night.

 

As has already been mentioned by a sensible poster. Joe had to take unmerciful punishment from guys who could not hit anything like as hard as the K brothers on his way in to land his own stuff. The one guy who could really hit destroyed him easily.

That is the reality. Not the rose tinted emotive nonsense.

 

All Wladamir does is throw one or two punches at a time and hold, Ali was throwing way more leather than Wladamir could dream of.

 

Oh really and how many did George Foreman have to throw before he dumped Joe on his ass?

Even you can't be stupid enough to claim that Vlad's power is more akin to Ali's than George's.

 

George Foreman was throwing everything at him for those 2 rounds, his most successful punch in that destruction was the uppercut, something Wladamir as never heard of!

 

A good bout. Frazier has a chance when at his very, very best... But I deem that chance to be less than a Wlad also at his very best. Wlad not at his best and most confident starts to have real problems. Still, Frazier has the right style, right output, right speed, right amount of heart.

 

Wrong AGAIN.

Foreman was hurting Frazier with left hands inside the first one and a half minutes, and dropped him for the first time inside 2 minutes with, as you say, an uppercut. After that he hit him with right hands, left hooks, anything he wanted to really. You should have gained a clue by Cossell screaming, the left hand is hitting him again, and again, but there you go.

As for your opinion on what punches Klitchko can or can't throw, its worthless as far as I'm concerned.

 

Vlad and Vitali fight nothing like the Foreman that beat Frazier. They are safety first fighters who put thier height to good use against thier opponents...none of whom fight like a prime Frazier. If they could keep Joe at bay while landing blow after blow sure they could win....but could they? To beat....or beat up a prime Frazier you'd better be prepared to to get close enough and commit to throwing caution to the wind and punches by the bunches. Not one or two and hope he falls...because he won't. And if he does fall rest asuured he'll get up and try to beat you. I respect the K brothers. Good big men who conduct themselves like gentlemen. But I'm not ready to say they are head and shoulders above many of the ATG's who preceeded them.

 

Believe me it was the uppercut that did the most damage on Frazier, he was also hurting him with left hooks. Look at the second knockdown, I don't know how Frazier got up from that punch. Foreman was a million times more aggressive than the safety first brothers.

 

Pretty good, sensible post.

Setting Wlad aside for a moment (I exclude Vitali since he is now officially retired ) I think Frazier would be extremely competitive with the current crop of contenders.
While Joe is definitely on the small side as heavyweights go today, he easily beat the 6'3" Buster Mathis, who weighed between 230-260 lbs. and was a skilled heavyweight with a surprising spring in his step for such a large man.

To beat Joe you had to either bomb him out as Foreman did, or match his will, skill and workrate and manage to outlast him, as Ali did in Manila. Can an Arreola, a Stiverne, a Wilder, a Fury or a Chisora do that? Thompson as he is now is on the other side of 40, and tended to fade against Pulev after a few rounds. I don't think he'd be a big threat.
Personally, I have extreme reservations of the others I mentioned beating Frazier.

Kubrat Pulev is quite an interesting one...he had nice skills and is probably the best fighter not named Klitschko right now. Luckily he is not a big puncher, so
chances are that it would boil down to a war of attrition, as most of Frazier's fights tended to be eventually.

Now Wlad would be the hardest fight for Frazier. I think one can forget power here. I know it sounds a bit mad; after all, Foreman blew Frazier away and Joe didn't really face any noted hitters other than George, and Wlad can definitely punch.

However, George and Wlad are completely different animals. George was hitting Frazier with those big uppercuts that exploded off Frazier's jaw. It was the uppercuts that undid Joe, a punch Wlad is not noted for throwing. I also think that anyone who got hit that much by those same huge shots from George would get knocked out, so it is not really a knock (pardon the pun) on Frazier's durability.

Power is only going to come into it if Wlad lands enough clean blows on Frazier. I don't think he is taking Joe out with one or two right hands; it is going to take a good number of punches.
Wlad never comes out bombing...not his style. Wlad as he is now, is a cautious fighter.
He first gets the jab working to establish his range, and sometimes you will see him only really starting to use the right hand after three, four rounds. Wlad never throws the right with authority until he is completely comfortable with his range and timing, established by the jab.
So for me, any talk of a quick blowout is silly.

I just don't know how Joe is going to get under those long arms and still get his own punches off without being tied up, that is the problem. And of course, manage to not get tagged by that jab.
Frazier came in extremely low sometimes and even Ali missed him a good deal, but even so, that jab and movement of Wlad's is going to be a major factor during the fight. Only Sanders has managed to make that jab a non-factor, and Sanders fought nothing like Frazier and relied on a totally different type of skillset and physical attributes.

For me it's not the outright size difference that decides the issue, but the overall skillset Wlad has coupled with size, which seems (and I hate saying this) almost perfect to deal with Frazier. The only thing that gives me some hope for Joe is that Wlad does not generally throw uppercuts, and Frazier had a great leaping left hook, which might find it's mark and land on Wlad's suspect chin just at the right moment.

My heart says Joe, my head says Wlad. :conf

 

Very good post, now I'm not saying the outcome would be different but I think the Frazier of the Foreman fight wasn't anywhere near the Frazier of the FOTC. People don't realise how much that fight took out of Joe, he was hospitalised for weeks.

 

Frazier today would undisputed champ today ain't no doubt

 

I just watched Wladimir Klitschko vs Samuel Peter,based on that fight and the one with Lamon Brewster(1st one)Frazier would be him.

 

I think Klitschko's precise punching, mobility at moving away from Frazier added with the unpredictability of tying Frazier up in clinches make for a boring fight with Klitschko either winning on points or Frazier's corner throwing in the towel in the late rounds. Style wise it seems a bad match up for Frazier in my opinion. Klitschko's timing and accuracy would be too much for Frazier's short rhythm movements. I do, however, think Frazier would pummel Tyson Fury senseless and fights vs Povetkin and Sultan Ibragimov would actually be entertaining and 50-50. Frazier was the best in a less numerous population of heavyweights. Povetkin fought over 300 fights before being knocked down, and even then, I don't think Klitschko legitimately knocked him down the number Klitschko was credited for ( Klitschko threw him down a time or two ) and literally hundreds of wins versus high level international amateur competitors. Sultan Ibragimov one of the best chins I've seen and vastly overlooked speed. Ibragimov would fight JF more aggressively than many would anticipate because Ibragimov wouldn't have to adjust for a size disadvantage.