Joe Frazier cleans up, today!

Why, is a poster not allowed to state his opinion on something? What is so ridiculous in assuming a fighter like Joe who dominated his era cannot compete today?
It only seems ridiculous to you Elroy. As we've discussed before, your opinions are usually in the minority, not only here but also across the way in general.
You may want to look into that.

 

Eh...can't agree with that.

Vitali lacked the firepower to hurt Chisora but Haye impressively put him to sleep in just his next fight. Wlad would likely do the same.

I see no evidence Wlad has been ducking Chisora since the Vitali fight. Wlad met his mandatory Thompson in July while Chisora famously chased the guy Wlad just beat and got crushed. Chisora has done a good job of rebuilding last year since the Haye demolition, perhaps if he gets by Fury he can put himself in position to challenge Wlad finally.

Chisora is certainly evidence that the aging Vitali could have some problems with Frazier. Though Vitali is out of the picture now anyway.

 

I love the use of a 41 year old armpuncher with a bad back and bad knees whitewashing his opponent on the cards as evidence that a fighter similar to this opponent would blitz through the division...

Bravo.

 

And that 41 year old blitizd through every opponent with ease prior to Chisora.

 

I guess because I used the word, "blitz" this is targeted at me, and no I didn't do that, in fact I was questioning Azzer's logic given Vitali isn't even in the picture anymore. Bravo.

 

The last "live and dangerous" opponent he had was 3 years earlier. Solis would have been but had that freak accident. 3 years is a hell of a long time when pushing past 40.

Oh, and then there is the fact that Vitali beat Chisora going away or perhaps you scored the fight different than I.

 

You'll never see a 5'11, 200 pound attrition fighter make a career campaigning at heavyweight at the world level again. Joe was great and his accomplishments can't be taken away, but it is no insult to be realistic about it.

Smaller heavyweights can be successful, but Joe doesn't have the footspeed, defense, or head movement to pull it off. His gameplan is grinding people down, swarming them, and relying on his chin to carry him through. That's not a style built for longevity (which is why Joe didn't last long in the first place), let alone when you don't have physical advantages over your opponents.

Acknowledging that he wouldn't have more heavyweight success today than in his era doesn't take away from Joe's greatness.

 

Perfectly stated.

 

Joe had fast and effective upper body and head movement. He made his opponents miss as he pressed forward, getting to their body or landing a quick left hook over the top.

Povetkin and Adamek are the #2 and #3 guys right now. They don't hold any sort of significant size advantage that would render a greater fighter like Frazier helpless.

 

If you don't like people ridiculing what you write, then you shouldn't write crap trying to ridicule fighters should you?

Why else would anyone mention a 41 year old Vitali having " problems " with a 28 year old Chisora whom I believe you described as a poor mans Frazier, or something similar, other than to try to ridicule him?

 

Joe got hit way too much, and would have to absorb more punishment today to grind down bigger fighters since he wouldn't be able to box from the outside. Absorbing more punishment from bigger punching fighters doesn't equal more success or better longevity.

And, again, there is a difference in a one-off scenario and saying he could campaign his entire career as a heavyweight like he did in his day. On paper, if you want to take Joe on is best day, and put him against fighter X, go ahead. There is a huge difference between that and pulling off a 40 fight career at the weight.

Small attrition fighters aren't going to make world-level noise spending their career in the heavyweight division.

 

-That's not really accurate. Frazier got through the first 6 years of his career without absorbing too much punishment, he was quite elusive with his head movement. The GOAT was the first guy to land anything consistently against him and Foreman was the first real beating he got.

-Bar Wlad, what bigger punching fighters? Adamek and Povetkin are no bigger or better than Quarry, Bonavana or Ellis. Pulev, Arreola, and Fury are big, but seem closer to Bugner and Mathis then Foreman. With Haye and Vitali gone, Wlad is the only puncher with a genuine chance of messing Frazier up.

-He would eventually burn out of course. Frazier was losing focus and control of his weight only 7 years into his career, but he would have some success before he starts slowing down and taking the unnecessary beatings.

 

If the above is meant as a pop at me, allow me to tell you a few home truths.

99.9% of what you post, is pure garbage, however it is merely your worthless opinion, and you have an absolute right to those idiotic opinion.

SKS on the other hand posted what he considered to be unquestionable fact, but which WAS in fact nonsense. i:e.

The first time Tua put on a pair of boxing gloves was as a frightened 8 year old forced to spar grown men 2 to 3 times older than him, who were told NOT to take it easy on the child.

In reply I quoted an interview given by Tua to Gavin Evans in 1996, which belied what SKS wrote.

If you wish to label that as being ridiculed, and shut down by a bunch of older guys who didn't show much maturity, go ahead.

It's just that most of us older guys like to tell fairy tales to our very young grand kids. We don't really need to read them on boxing forums. And that is what SKS's thread was. A fairy tale.

 

Frazier carried enough speed and power to ensure that he wouldn't be taking significant amounts of punishment as he was coming up the ranks, so long as he was matched correctly. Chances are, a fighter like Frazier is going to be pretty fresh by the time he reaches contention and the point where he could challenge for the title.

Joe was a pretty special fighter who was hardly the face first brawler you make him out to be, Rock. If you don;t think he can handle K2 that's one thing...but he's probably got more than enough to hold his own with everyone else in the division.