Joe Frazier Ducked Mac Foster, Ron Lyle & Earnie Shavers

Just being able to hit hard does not mean your beating Frazier. Prime Frazier beats all three of these hwts. He swarms all over Lyle and out works him for a late round stoppage. Mac Foster was a grade or two below Joes class and would be stopped mid fight. Shavers although a brutal puncher had no stamina or chin. Joe catches him by round five for the ko win.

 

:thumbsup

 

If Joe could fight Stander and Daniels, he could've fought Foster.

 

. . . and no one would have cared he was not in the top 10.

 

No! This must be sorted out. It must be sorted out now! If civilization is to continue it must not with some people, perhaps well intentioned, thinking Mac Freakin' Foster was entitled to a title shot in 1972!

 

Frazier ducked them and fought Foreman, Ali and Quarry instead.

 

Shavers and Foster were both beaten by someone called Bob Stallings. Stallings beat Blue Lewis, another journeyman slugger whom Frazier is sometimes accused of ducking, and also fought Lyle and took him the distance. So if anything Frazier was ducking Bob Stallings. Stallings, by the way, lost 31 of his 63 fights.

 

Was he seeking out the best? NO. As champion Frazier fought Stander and Daniels, neither was in the top ten. He also avoided an invitation to the WBA Tournament, and as the thread started mentioned avoided top punchers.

Maybe Mac Foster wasn't a big puncher, but Shavers, and Lyle was. They do not appear on his resume, and neither does Liston.

 

Mendoza is correct; neither were top ten.

I've been working, off and on, at a 'consensus ratings' project. I take the ratings of whatever I can get my hands on: the Ring, World / International Boxing, Boxing Illustrated, and the WBA & WBC (before they got absolutely ridiculous in '76 or so) and average them out to try to get an accurate unbiased picture of where guys were ranked at any given time. Here are the consensus ratings for January and May 1972, when Frazier fought Daniels and Stander:

January 1, 1972

World Champion:
Joe Frazier

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Jerry Quarry
3. George Foreman
4. Oscar Bonavena
5. Jimmy Ellis
6. Floyd Patterson
7. Jose Luis Garcia
8. Mac Foster
9. George Chuvalo
10. Jose Urtain
11. Larry Middleton
12. Gregorio Peralta
13. Al (Blue) Lewis
14. Ron Stander
15. Terry Daniels
16. Joe Bugner
17. Ernie Terrell
18. 'Florida' Al Jones

May 1, 1972

World Champion:
Joe Frazier

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Jerry Quarry
3. George Foreman
4. Floyd Patterson
5. Oscar Bonavena
6. Jose Luis Garcia
7. Gregorio Peralta
8. Jimmy Ellis
9. Mac Foster
10. Larry Middleton
11. George Chuvalo
12. Al (Blue) Lewis
13. Joe (King) Roman
14. Jose Urtain
15. Ron Lyle
16. Ken Norton
17. 'Florida' Al Jones

 

Frazier ended up fighting the winner, the runner-up and one of the semi-finalists of the WBA tourney, plus some guy called Ali. I'd call that fighting the best.

It's true he did take two soft touches after Ali, though he did follow up by meeting his #1 contender Foreman. Shavers and Lyle would have been considered soft touches in 72 as well, seeing as Lyle was just a 14 fight rookie, while Shavers wasn't on anyone's radar until he KO'd Ellis in June 73, at which point Frazier had lost to Foreman anyway.

 

Who did Lyle ever KO ?
I'm sure he hit hard, but then so did Bonavena and Quarry.

 

As mentioned earlier, Stander knocked out Shavers. Of course, Quarry knocked out Shavers. Frazier would have had no problem.

 

Yeah, what a "ducker" that Joe Frazier was. Within a year, he'd have faced NINE of those top contenders.

Who did Foster beat on that list? Nobody? :deal

 

According to Ron Lyle's book, Frazier attended the Lyle-Mathis fight in Colorado. And the Lyle-Middleton bout was basically an eliminator in December 1972 to qualify for a title fight. Lyle expected to face Frazier in 1973 after Frazier defeated Foreman. But Frazier lost to Foreman in January 1973. And then Lyle lost to Quarry in February 1973. And that was basically that.

 

In 1972-1973 neither Lyle or Shavers were on anyone's radar. Mac Foster was in the top ten but there was no reason for Frazier to duck Foster. To insinuate he was is just plain ignorance.

Frazier fought Ali in 71 as a title defense. He won the championship by stopping Ellis once Ali retired in 70. Certainly like any champion Joe cemented his championship by beating in solid fashion the FORMER champion Ali.

Frazier did fight two soft touches AFTER BEATING Ali and BEFORE fighting future ATG Foreman. So what? Like many other champions he fought a couple easy marks in between two top defenses. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. Nit picking two years in a highly successful boxing career is completely unfair. Within a two year give or take period he fought the greatest hwt champion ever and a top five greatest hwt champion ever along with two soft touches. Nothing wrong with this looking at boxing history.