the lyle who dropped and hurt foreman twice (early, not because he was tired), foreman who was bigger,stronger, more powerfull than frazier with a much better chin. he smashes frazier like a yo yo yes.
Foreman who been inactive and lacked confidence who got caught by his best shot and still knocked him out.
Look, 99% of the forum realise that you are obsessed with building Lyle up into the stratosphere so as to make what he did to (your hero) George that much more acceptable. He bounced a young Foreman up and down like a yoyo and had him reeling like a drunk who'd found $500 on the ground 10 hours earlier. Lyle was a good fighter but struggled to win many rounds at all against guys like Quarry and Young. He had a few decent victories but probably isn't going to immensely trouble many ATG heavyweights excepting Foreman. Marciano, Louis, Frazier, Holmes, he's at big odds. Louis would chop him to pieces and Holmes would go close to shutting him out before a likely stoppage.
Indeed. Lyle was a good fighter who made the best of a late started career. But his credentials rely way too heavily on a gallant "losing" effort to a champion who had been out of the ring for 15 months and coming off a devastating defeat. Watching how Quarry was busting him up at every single range ( long, middle and inside ) I don't even want to envision what he'd look like after being subjected to the lethal combinations of a Joe Louis, Mike Tyson or the hand speed of Joe Frazier.
I agree with all of this but the "young Foreman " part makes me laugh. Back then he was coming back. Who knew?
keep inventing excuses, foreman did eat ice cream in the morning before of the fight, he saw a black cat etc
louis would get hurt and down vs lyle, frazier should be in his absolute peak to win this, lyle was better than bonavena , holmes? lyle was sparring partner of him and stylistically lyle was a hell for him just like was also the sparring spoon, marciano? lyle stops him and early and makes it look easy. jack johnson would be a harder match for lyle
Yeah I dont see lyle beating frazier. Lyle could get an early knockdown but he would inevitably get outworked and destroyed in the late rounds.. just because Lyle knocked down foreman twice doesnt make him this legendary puncher who would KO Frazier; His record doesn't suggest that, as the only named guy that he KO'd was a chinny earnie shavers.
Well, Holmes DID stop Shavers by TKO and a past prime 77' Ali had Shavers badly hurt in the 15th round, nearly finished him. A lot of people managed to stop Shavers, some did it as early as 1 round. But that doesn't matter since neither ali or holmes are considered big punchers; just respectable ones.
I think he was still on a learning curve against Quarry, though. Agree pretty much with the rest. But I wouldn't be chocked if he troubled Frazier. Wouldn't be chocked if Joe ruined him either. Think you can make a case either way.
shavers never had great stamina, still he survived the complete 15 rounds with him, holmes destroyed marvis frazier and stopped tons of guys so if shavers lasted 15 rounds with him, with mediocre stamina and poor defence he was not that "chinny". shavers was asked about who did hit harder holmes or lyle and he did laugh
Shavers was chinny, mate. It's universally known. Look at what Quarry did to him. Look at how Cobb stopped him. He didn't have the best chin which is why both Holmes and Ali hurt him. If Ali was younger he would have stopped him. of course Lyle hit harder than Holmes. Lyle still didn't knock out anyone special, aside from Shavers. His record as a puncher is basically because of his performance vs Foreman, where he lost. Look at how Lyle went the distance with Bonavena and Ellis, guys that Ali stopped. In my opinion there's nothing to suggest that Lyle would knockout Frazier, there's nothing in his record to show for that other than a hearty performance vs Foreman and a KO win over Shavers, which doesn't mean he would KO Frazier. You and I both know Frazier was a greater fighter and proved it on multiple occasions.
Shavers made it 15 rounds because he refused to over exert himself. That was his plan going into the fight. Pick his spots as he did over 12 rounds but be as fresh as possible after 12 rounds then go all out for the ko the last three. His lack of great activity over the first 12 put him way behind on the cards (8-4) after 12 so he needed a ko to win.
