Joe Frazier, In A Division With No Ali Or Foreman??

Although Frazier would be a favourite to beat an aging Liston by 1968, i suspect Joe's management would be concerned about this match up. Liston was a monstorous puncher and while he lacked speed that late in his career, he hit nearly as hard as Foreman but with greater accuracy. His jab was even better than George's, his uppercuts and hooks were terrific too.

Frazier had good head movement but his style always relied on taking a punch and then paying back with interest by getting close. Against Liston, this is a problem. Liston does not need speed to hit Frazier. Joe will have to wear Liston down.

I suspect Liston would lose to Frazier by 1968 but it isn't a given.

If i were Joe's management, i would wait for Liston to lose to a slick boxer before fighting for the title.

If Frazier beats Liston, he likely reigns till 1975. Peak Frazier beats Lyle. However, i could see Lyle beatting the 75-76 Frazier (maybe). Frazier's style is not meant to last past 30-31 years of age.

Norton could perhaps decision 1975-76 Frazier unless Joe can land big left hooks.

I suspect Frazier would dominate from 68-75 but with his high energy and taxing style, he likely experiences 1-2 losses.

 

Think Joe was always going to have a shorter career then most based on the way he trained and his style tends to burn out rather quickly.

 

The most interesting thing would be when Joe could beat a Liston in an Ali-less world.

 

Joe was still pumping every other heavyweight not named Ali or Foreman. He beat Bugner, Quarry and Ellis in between Foreman and Ali battles. There's every chance he could have been reigning through 74, 75 and even 76.

Who else was there to beat? I'd favor him over Lyle even at that point. He'd be every chance of beating Young and Norton even later on as well. Shavers usually failed in the big one.

Perhaps he could have reigned until 77'ish. Holmes wasn't truly firing until 78.

Joe was still firing good even by the time of Thrilla at the end of 75.

Minus Ali you'd think Norton would have built himself up and he and Joe would have fought earlier out of necessity and an earlier Frazier would have beat him and perhaps multiple times for lack of other challengers.

Young and Lyle would have been 75/76 era challengers you'd guess.

The flipside is that he gets bored without Ali and Foreman to chase revenge against.

If he stayed motivated i think he'd have done well.

 

I think Joe is too relentless for a Young.
Shavers has a chance maybe first two rounds after that he's toast.

 

1968 i guess. Even in 1967, i suspect Frazier would lose to Liston.

By 1969, Liston would be too slow.

 

I've a feeling that Joe would still have met Jimmy Ellis for the unified title around the time that they actually did.
Providing Frazier kept his motivation going,his prime would have lasted longer than it did in real time for one very good reason - he would n't have suffered those career shortening batterings in the three fights with Ali and the two with Foreman.

Joe beats all the top guys such as Ellis,Norton,Bugner,Quarry etc. By this time it is 1975 or '76. Maybe Jimmy Young would outpoint an ageing Smokin' Joe or only just falls short of beating him. Either way,Joe retires unbeaten or loses his crown by 1977. A young Larry Holmes,maybe?

 

He'd never reign for long. He didn't live the life and paid for it against Foreman for an example. Look at his defences after Ali 1. If he took Ali's place in history he'd maraud all the way to the top punch Liston's teeth in no doubt about it but let's see how he does later you'd be shocked who his rival would be by the early 70s. If he fought as long as Ali from the 60s to the late 70s he'd just be a name for people to beat up on and would be utterly shot.

 

He retires undefeated. Lyle & Shavers are threats because of their power, but weren't on Foreman or Ali's level skillwise so Frazier still beats them.

 

I reckon the biggest threat to Frazier would be outside the ring not in it.

 

The answer is a laughable yes.