Not convinced that Frazier survives a slugfest with Ike, but I'd be very surprised if he lost to Byrd. I'd expect Lewis to stop him.
I would be very surprised Ike survived a slugfest with Frazier. There’s nothing on ikes resume to match Frazier’s best wins. When Ike was around Bowe, Lewis, Holyfeild and Tyson were the best. Ike fought none of them. When Frazier came along Machen, Jones, Chuvalo, Ellis, Quarry, Bonavena and Ali where the best around. Frazier beat all of them.
Nobody is comfortable with tale of the tape comparisons. Everyone knows the weight of a heavyweight is directly determined by the era they fought in. And as any weight watcher can tell you Fat people measure thicker. In each other’s era Frazier, Marciano and Tua would have been very similar to each other.
The thing is, resumes don't fight each other... There are big questions around Ike because of his truncated career, so reasonable people can disagree, but I think he demonstrated more than enough in his fights against Byrd, Tua, and lesser foes to be favored against a much smaller pressure fighter like Frazier. I think he has the strength, conditioning, durability, and power to pull this one off.
There is nothing in the Tua and Bryd fight that shows he beats Ali, just as there was nothing in those wins (at that time) that necessarily made Ike a dead certainty to beat Lennox Lewis. Byrd was not yet the fighter he became, and Tua was just another prospect at that time. Nothing else he did stood out.
A guy like Ike comes along from time to time, and it is really not a major event, unless you are obsessed with his era! Nobody asks whether Joe Frazier would have beaten Luther McCarthy or Henry Flakes!
But we're not talking about Ike v. Ali, we're talking about Ike v. Joe Frazier. The Tua fight (along with Joe's Foreman fights, to some extent) suggests that Ike would probably handle Frazier well, imo. I don't believe that many other heavyweights could have stood toe to toe and slugged it out with that version of David Tua and survived 12 rounds. Ike did, and I think he could do the same against the smaller, less durable, less powerful Frazier. The argument that Byrd was not yet the fighter he became seems completely circular to me, unless you can point out some specific improvements in his game.
If you think that either man is comparable or analogous enough to Ike Ibeabuchi to warrant being considered to be "like Ike" in this context, then I am 100% convinced that you only read boxing and don't actually watch it.
We have Tua's first fights on tape, looking soft and pudgy at 200. And Marciano looking cut in pics from the Simmons fight. You cant dispute this seriously.. You guys think the human body is a truck bed, that reaches capacity, and Tua turning from a fat 200 pounder to a muscular 230 pounder is beyond your limited understanding.
Ike handles Frazier well if Ike can prove he can beat an elite fighter in his own time. Neither Tua or Bryd were classed as elite when he beat them, they were just “promising”at that time and not yet proven. It’s handy for Ike that Bryd and Tua were higher regarded afterwards. But look how many left hooks Frazier hit an elusive guy like Ali with in the first round. I’m sorry but Ike would be in serious trouble. Some great punchers have difficulty being a big puncher against guys of their own level. Tua later was able to do it, but truly great fighters are always able to do it. Tua was a good puncher for sure. But he was not hurting Lenox Lewis and he went life and death with Rahman. Going 12 rounds with David izon... Frazier was stopping Chuvalo. Stopping Quarry. Knocking down Ali. These guys were the best around. Tua never matched that.
Exactly. With Marcianos diet and training Tua would resemble Kitione Lave, a 1950s South Pacific heavyweight. Lave would have had the same “so called” unique genetic bones of Tuas people as well. It’s a bunch of nonsense that Tua always would have been 250lb and that his measurements were the same at 201 as they were at 254..
There is a reserved spot in the natural history museum for the remarkable skeleton of David Tua. Medical science cannot wait to examine his magical expanding bones...
