Joe Frazier in the Larry Holmes era

You think thats tougher than smoking right into guys like Shavers two times, Weaver, Cooney, Witherspoon and Smith? Imho fighters like Page, Thomas, Tubbs and Tucker suit Fraziers style, while the punchers do not for me.

 

Holmes stopping Frazier? Unlikely. Holmes couldn't stop Norton, couldn't stop Witherspoon, and a number of other guys. Holmes struggled with pressure fighters. If he is beating Frazier, it will be through a very hard fought decision.

 

It’s not really an either or question. He could fight all of them if you want. I don’t really think Frazier had the kind of style that would see him make 20 straight defenses against decent opponents.

 

Here we go again with stupid notion that Frazier couldn't fight against powerful sluggers because he lost to Foreman. Let me tell you - Cooney and Shavers were not Foreman, he would stop them.

Funny enough that Shavers and Cooney are seen as real threats for him because of Foreman, but everybody here would pick Frazier to beat Joe Louis or Max Baer.

 

I'm not clear on whether Joe would beat Baer, but I pick the FOTC version (and only that version) of Joe to beat Louis. Any other day Louis knocks him out in 5 imo.

Shavers and Cooney (as you already know, my obviously informed friend), though HIGHLY dangerous at any time in a fight, weren't anywhere near Foreman as fighters on their best days. Joe would chop Cooney down, period imo. And certainly (though the slight possibility exists of Joe getting floored by Shavers, hard) would storm up to beat the living bejesus out of him, too, in 4. Those two fighters quite simply weren't on the level of Joe Louis, Foreman, Ali, or Holmes...no way imo.

 

Most people would pick Louis. Baer wasn’t in either of their league.

 

Baer is not in the league of Shavers and Cooney? Really?

 

I have to be embarrassedly honest, my friend...I know very little about Baer

 

FFS, how long will you log in this board and still not see that Baer was a crude product of a chin, some power and weight advantage? It wouldn´t result into anything if you compare him with solid HW punchers after the 60s. He was the fighter that he was on film. Crude. Open. No jab. No feet or feel for distancing. Fought in rough spurts. Enough to rough up smaller Schmelings. Put him against Cooney or Shavers and he´ll eat bombs.

Talking about Louis: I´m far away from beeing a Louis fan, but no Frazier, also FOTC Frazier would handle the sharp power punching of Joe Louis. What Louis got more than anybody else was landing best leverage on short distance. He could bomb him inside, or midrange, whatever.
Again, Frazier is the man to beat the Alis, Youngs, Byrds or Tubbs. And no, its not just Foreman. He got dropped by much lesser fighters, unable to tag him again.

 

Hell Holmes could not even stop Alfredo Evanglista. Joe Frazier would eat Larry Holmes alive.

 

Joe had some of the most frighteningly effective combinations ever. I mean, he wasn't the boxer Ali and Holmes were, nor quite the level of puncher Foreman and Tyson were (probably a bit more powerful than Norton, but faster and more precise). But that guy seemingly had stacks of bombs to throw, like shrapnel shards blown out of a pump shotgun.

I put him only behind 60s Ali, and I think that would have been a fight Ali suffered a knockdown during ( I ultimately see Ali winning an SD though).

 

Uh, Holmes knocked out Evangelista one shot.

Schooled.

 

Yea yeah, he was like Ali, right? Who´d tango Evangelista for 15. Sure sure.....

 

I thought that was very unthinking for Curtis to write that. Holmes' one-punch ko of Evangelista marked the only time he actually put somebody down for the count in his title defenses. I think it was notable only just for that reason lol!

But hey, everybody makes mistakes, no big deal.

 

Pretty sure I was talking about three people, none of whom were named Shavers or Cooney.