Joe Frazier KO 2 Manuel Ramos 1968

Ease up Klompy,no need for the nasty stuff.You've provided some good info, don't tar it with personal jibes.

 

I think that’s what you call a schooling!

 

Im not the one who got personal. I just asked him to back up his statement I know to be false. He cant so he chose instead post an insulting emoticon. Again, if he has information beyond his word, which has proven worthless in the past, Id love to see it. The problem is weve been down this road before and Grant feels no need for accountability for his xlaims. As an actual historian, not a guy who just claims that title on an internet forum, I subscribe to the Missouri school of thought on such matters: You have to SHOW-ME. He cant and wont. Simple as that. Frankly, whether the Frazier family made that claim (which I doubt) is neither here nor there. The question is whether it actually happened. So show me. A real historian would follow up on that claim before posting it as fact.

 

He can't help himself, he's a miserable turd. Nothing new. It's too much fun to set him off.

 

Who are you other than some third rate, nickel and dime, film pirate/hoarder that I have to show anything to ? Because you say so ? What did you ever accomplish ? I made a film, made over $ 80,000 on the world wide selling of it and moved on. What'd you do ? Spend fifteen years on some cut and past book that was a copy of Pollacks prototype ( while Pollack put out eight ) put and sell 500 copies if you were lucky ? You're nothing.

Do you own research. A guy with your charm must have plenty of free time on the weekends.

 

After researching further Durham would not let Lyle spar Frazier and instead put him in with Norton. Durham told Lyle Frazier would hurt him at that time. Lyle simply sparred who he was told to by Durham.

 

Couple of points for the fans in the cheap seats:

Who am I? When I call myself a historian it’s because I have a degree in the subject and a body of work dating back over 20 years. I didn’t just wake up one day and because I like to read about old boxers decide to call myself a historian. Big difference little man.


Your movie didn’t make **** because you couldn’t find a distributor for it which is why you released as straight to video on the amazon market place. All of that information came directly from you. But nice try.


We both know that I was writing my book LONG before Adam ever dreamed up the idea to start his series. And frankly you can go back and look at Adams first several books and see I didn’t borrow jack **** from him, not his style, not his template, not even the format. You know better so for you to say that shows how sad and desperate you are. In fact I would argue your claims of me “cutting and pasting” as an insult and then comparing me to Adam reflect more poorly on him than me. Which one of our works relies almost solely on quotes from newspapers with very little narrative, biographical material, and a minimum of analysis? Adams, not mine. So if I were Adam I’d be offended. Since you aren’t describing my book I’m not offended at all. To me it’s just the ranting of a small man swinging for the fences because he can’t back up his own post.

Do my own research? I think everyone here can find the humor in that statement coming from a guy who thinks Ray Robinson had it easy or is so busy making movies and being a historian that he can’t be bothered to watch a 35 minute film of Jack Johnson-Jim Flynn and would rather just pop off about how Flynn was on his way to winning that fight, lol. If you are doing your own research you might want to consider retiring those “historian” credentials.

Of course all of this is smoke to distract from your incorrect statement that Lyle was a Frazier sparring partner. You would do a lot more damage by simply proving me wrong but you and I both know you can’t so you get mad like a little girl and throw a tantrum.

 

Sources please, I’d love to read this article, because I have the film of Ali sparring with Lyle and telling him afterwards to watch out for Frazier that Frazier is too undisciplined and might hurt him. Regardless, my point still stands. The one time Lyle was in Frazier’s camp they didn’t spar.

 

I was under the impression that Evan gave your book a good write up? Am I wrong?

 

It's in Facing Ali. Page 237 in the version I have.

"He [Yancey Durham] said: 'I can't let you spar with Joe Frazier right now because he'll hurt you. But I'll let you spar with Ken Norton. That's his ace sparring partner.'"

 

Yes that's true ,I have the book,I don't remember anything about Lyle and Frazier sparring though.

 

No, Lyle sparred Ali and Norton, but not Frazier.

 

Thats interesting because its so similar to what Ali told Lyle. When Lyle sparred Ali, in the film of it, afterwards they are in the ring together. Ali is standing there giving Lyle advice. Someone else says that Lyle is going to box Frazier next. Ali says, kind of incredulously: "Hes gonna spar with Frazier!?" "Watch Frazier because hes clumsy, hes got heavy hands, hes no boxer, he has no skill, and he might just try to hit you hard. So tell him, let somebody tell Frazier that 'this fella is a good amateur and hes not out for no reputation. Give him a good little boxing lesson but don't hurt him.'" That's a direct, word for word quote from the film. Regardless, I know that Lyle sparred Norton instead of Frazier and he gave Norton a ton of respect, spending most of the time on the defensive. Id love to see where Lyle actually sparred Frazier but I'm 99% percent certain it never happened. If it did prove me wrong, Id love it.

 

I haven't been following the thread that closely, has someone said Frazier and Lyle actually sparred? First I've heard of that in that case. But it would be very cool if there were some footage.