Joe Frazier not a top HW ATG/H2H?

True but Frazier was behind on the cards at one point well into the fight vs. Mathis, really got a draw on my card in the first fight vs. Bonevena and got another draw, probably of the gift variety vs Cummings. The Bonavena fight is officially a SD win, but wasn't scored under the ten point must system. If it was Bonavena gets a 10-7 round and wins this fight. Things to chew on. So saying that Frazier only lost to two fighters is misleading in a modern sense.

 

Ha,ha,ha,ha ,,Nooooooo! not another one.

 

First post after years of lurking ... I absolutely think Frazier is an all-time great, I'd put him lower end of top 10. But at the same time (donning Kevlar), in my years of lurking I've come to the conclusion that he's placed on way too high a pedestal here (1.) because of the attitude reflected in this post; (2.) because folks here seem to gravitate toward swarmers with a warrior mentality; and (3.) as a response to Ali going over the top in ragging Frazier, especially in Manila. (I just recently had a chance to watch the HBO documentary on that fight for the first time and there is no possible justification for how far Ali went along those lines.) Just my .02.

 

Frazier is, without doubt, an ATG Heavyweight.

Rarely will one see the kind of smooth fusion of defense and offense in a Heavyweight, like that which Frazier's movement and IQ afforded him.

His record speaks for itself.

- Joe Bugner
- Muhammad Ali (in probably the greatest of wins in Heavyweight history)
- Jimmy Ellis
- Jerry Quarry x2
- Manuel Ramos
- George Chuvalo
- Eddie Machen
- Oscar Bonavena x2

Frazier's eventual losses came against his peers, i.e. fellow Top-10 All-Time Great Heavyweights.

Legend!

 

Perhaps this thread would be better named "Who DOESN'T consider Frazier an ATG"

I'd go as far to ask who doesn't consider him in the top 10, and I doubt there would be too many siding with that idea.

 

I would agree entirely with your sentiments, and its a pleasure to be a part of your first post! I hope you may decide to lurk less, we always need more input like yours!