Joe Frazier or John L Sullivan ¿Who had more pure stamina?

A very difficult question to answer, basically impossible. Could he have thrown the volume of power punches Frazier did across 15? Who knows, but what we do know is that Sullivan was always the one pushing the pace and forcing the fight. That in itself tests your stamina especially if you had to chase your opponent as much as Sullivan did. The heat conditions for the Kilrain fight also sounded really ****ing awful, as did the weather conditions for his 3 hour rematch with Mitchell. The main problem with using these examples is the fact that Sullivan had to economize his output and focus more on timing instead of the volume he put up in his gloved matchups.

How would Frazier’s cardio fare if he was in the bare knuckle scene? He’d certainly have to economize his output in the same way Sullivan did otherwise he’d gas at some point.

Sullivan never got the opportunity to prove that his cardio can hold up in a fast paced 15 rounder like Frazier did, to put it simply, because nobody was able to be competitive with Sullivan in a gloved fight.

 

And let's not overlook the point that Sullivan was a lush, rarely in the pink of fitness and for a good chunk of his career compromised by effects of alcohol precipitated, if not induced, comas. That'll sap your gas tank.

 

Of course the discussion will turn to stating that we don’t know enough about Sullivan to say either way.

However, we can see that Frazier upheld extraordinary stamina - and since it was extraordinary, sans reasonable proof otherwise, it is less likely to be an attribute possessed by most others - so, at least IMO, Frazier gets the benefit of any doubts in the face of any unknown quantities in this comparison.

 

Some people think Joe Frazier descended FROM John L. Sullivan, much the same way some believe the North American Wood Ape descended from Gigantopithecus. Gigantopithecus was gigantic, when you compare him to other pithecuses/pithecai. Frazier is not a physical giant but neither was Sullivan and nor were they small like H. Naledi but they were men. Spell M, A child, N. That spells mannish boy. Boy, as in, Boy, howdy, look at them hook! Jab that hook! Hook offadat jab! Say, hey, what do ya say!?!

 

Long term aerobic endurance? Sullivan.
Plyometric endurance? Frazier

Just saying the word 'stamina' isn't specific enough for comparison imo. Frazier likely had superior explosiveness, stretch shortening cycle etc whereas Sullivan had insane aerobic endurance, recovery, mitochondrial adaption etc. Both men were also very physically and mentally tough which is a massive bonus.

I find Frazier's explosiveness over 15 more impressive in terms of stamina but that's just my opinion.

 

Always got to get my daily dose of @Boxed Ears wisdom

 

Something no woman has ever said without monetary incentive. But appreciated.

 

I did the conversion and its 25 rounds cause each round was a minute. It was also bare knuckle which technically isn't part of this sport. The pace in bare knuckle is a lot slower as you've got to aim for specific parts of the face and body.

Sullivan v Kilrain was also only 1 fight. Besides this and the 21 round Corbett loss the longest fight of Sullivans career was 7 rounds. And you might say "thats cause he was knocking everyone out". While thats true that was also the longest any of his fights were actually planned to last. In the 1880s the championship distance was 6 rounds and a fight being 5 rounds indicated a major matchup.

With KO to win fights someone has to win and winning such a fight isn't really a legendary durability feat. All it means is a fighter lasted longer then the other guy and the longer the fight goes the more it suggested they wouldn't have gotten the stop otherwise(cough Willard). Not that Sullivans durability sucked or anything. In gloved boxing Kilrain actually won a 44 round KO to win against Godfrey. Sullivans durability is much less overrated then his power. I think the era as a whole has overrated stamina because of the "back in the day they fought 50 rounds" talking point. When the reality is they had the shortest fights ever with a few outliers caused by KO to win jurisdictions.

Frazier didn't really have a stamina problem he had a fighting bigger people he couldn't knock out problem. Sullivan wasn't one of those people.

 

It is obviously a very difficult comparison.

Frazier showed an incredible punch output for a heavyweight, over the fifteen round distance, and carried his power right up to the last bell.

Obviously nothing to fault there.

Sullivan fought bare knuckle contests at a much lower punch output, but with grappling and throws involved.

In one contest he did it for three hours plus and in another for two hours plus.

To put those numbers in perspective, some people can run a marathon in three hours, so just imagine the toll on the fighters punching and grappling.

Again nothing to fault there.

It seems that they both did as much as we could ask, under the rules they had to work with.