Joe Frazier Quote...thoughts

Joe is letting his personal feelings about Ali get in the way of his better judgement.

 

jhar, Joe thought he was winning the third fight at the time of its stoppage and Eddie thought it very close also. He won the first clearly in perhaps his last fight at his best, so I don't think its because of his bad feelings towards Ali that he concludes this.

 

Not necessarily. Frazier, in maybe his greatest performance, defeated an Ali trying to work off three years rust, as well as, perhaps, being still a little ***ged from his recent bout with Bonevena. Is it outlandish for Frazier to think that Louis or Marciano, in comparable circumstances (the night of their lives, and Ali's a bit of a dulled knife) would not also have triumphed?

 

His esential point is true. If he could beat Ali then other all time greats might be able to.

It is important to note however that former champions always rater fighters with a style similar to their own most highly. A punchers top ten list will consist mainly of punchers while a slicksters list will give a higher weighting to technical ability.

Frazier ranking Rocky Marciano highly is a natural extension of his own style and way of thinking.

 

Joe Frazier's movements were ten times faster than those of the Brockton Bleeder.
The bleeder would have gotten a triple jab in the face while attempting to land a hook on Ali's jaw.

 

Frazier wasn't the only guy that Ali fought and vice versa. Joe shouldn't only consider how Ali did against him - but also how they both did against other fighters and who those other fighters were. I'm not having a problem with him thinking that Ali ranks below Louis, Marciano and himself, but the basis of his argument is very limited.

 

That's Joe's opinion. But I have always felt that Joe needs to feel that he is better than Ali while at the same time endear himself to the public by picking two admired and well-known heavyweights in Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano to beat Ali. Listening to Frazier talk about Ali, it always seems to me that he feels small in Ali's shadow. I understand that (although Foreman has a better attitude about his relation to Ali). But somebody else said it first, Joe's letting his personal feelings cloud his judgment.

Joe needs to keep in mind that Ali beat him twice, brutally in the third fight (that fight wasn't close, in my opinion). He also needs to acknowledge that, although he won the first Ali fight with some dramatic rounds, Joe later went to the hospital from the beating he absorbed. People seem so eager to discuss Ali's defeat in that first fight that they appear to have forgotten all about the tremendous pounding Frazier took from Ali, especially in the first half of the fight. Props to Frazier for taking it and coming back to win, though. He fought like a possessed man. In the eleventh round, Frazier had Ali in the worst trouble Ali has ever been in. The knockdown in the 15th round was picture perfect. It was definitely Joe's signature win. But it wasn't one sided by any means.

No offense to anybody who thinks so, but I don't know how anybody could believe that Marciano would likely beat Ali. Louis stood a much better chance at an upset, but still Ali was too tough and smart and would have been the favorite going into the fight. I think Ali would outsmart Louis in the end, probably scoring a late-round knockout. Marciano? Ali would cut him to ribbons. I think Ali-Marciano would largely be regarded as a mismatch if such a match were actually held. Ali would be installed as the heavy favorite in any case.

 

And to apply that rationale is self-destructive to his own place in heavyweight history. Using his own reasoning, Joe would have to rate George Foreman over himself. But plenty of boxing historians believe that Joe would have defeated more of the other HW champions there have been than Foreman would have. Frazier was at his best for the FOTC, but was the same true for Ali? He very definitely is hampered by Ali induced myopia concerning a broader view of himself among the division greats.

 

Well considering Ali beat Joe two out of three times then he's going to have to shift his ass below Ali's and add the likes of Foreman above him as well since George beat Joe's ass and Ali beat George as well.

 

Frazier did beat Ali when both of them were the closest to their best. Neither was probably at their absolute peak. Frazier had only fought one complete round in the last 13 months, Ali had been off for years before coming back and getting two good tune up fights with Quarry and Bonavena. At the time of the first Frazier-Ali fight, Ali had been more active than Frazier in the year leading up to the fight.

 

When Frazier turned pro Ali had already defended his world heavyweight title. Frazier sure looked sharp decimating Bob Foster just 4 months before the Ali fight. This is absolute peak Frazier.

 

Yeah Marciano would get dominated by Ali.

 

Or so you think. Marciano has the style to give Ali hell. If Chavlo fair pretty well vs Ali. I think Marciano would also.

 

Ali after 3 years in exile which as been noted by observers such as Jose Torres ,robbed him of some of his stamina,gave Frazier ,who was imo at his peak,the fight of his life,and effectively ruined him,I beleive we never saw the best of Ali,it would have been those 3 i/2 years he was inactive,he clearly rates above Frazier,who apart form his 1 win over Ali never beat a great fighter his weight,[Foster was a lh]Fraziers record against the 2 great fighters he met is 1 W 4L,he gets in my top ten just!