Didn't blacktop bully say on here last year that Ali was vastly overrated? Apologies to BTB if it wasn't him but someone did
In an all time H2H sense, he doesn't do that well. When judged by the standard of his era, and at his fully motivated peak, Frazier was a real hard and vicious *******, and I wouldn't fancy 15 rounds with him. He's in my 9-12 range for ATG HW's.
You have to judge guys like Dempsey, Frazier and Tyson at their best. Out of those three, I'd say Frazier is the weakest link, but he had a style that could be kryptonite for tall guys that liked to box. He would have his hands full if he ran into a guy like Bowe and Foreman. Then again, so would Dempsey and Tyson. You know how it is, styles make fights.
He did run into Foreman, and he bounced off. Guys who gave him something to slip, and didn't follow up hard enough to stop him in his tracks would always have a problem. Guys like Ruiz etc would be made for Frazier. I see him as being one of those guys who should be favoured over all but the very best. Then again he does have a win against someone alot of people consider the best HW of all time.
I see the Ts still isn't seeing sense. I'm sure he was there at the time shitting on the fotc because Ali was watered down :-(
--> One of the reasons why you think Muhammad Ali was a much great fighter pre-exile is because of his performance against Cleveland Williams. "This is Muhammad Ali in his prime" you think to yourself. The fact of the matter is that Cleveland Williams was severely damaged by a gunshot which left him partially paralyzed in his left leg. "Williams had been inactive the entire year of 1965 while recovering from gunshot wounds he suffered at the hands of a police officer arising out of a traffic stop. Boxing reporter Jerry Izenberg adds "...shot for no apparent reason." Williams was shot with a .357 Magnum in the abdomen, barely survived, and suffered permanent kidney damage, a loss of over ten feet of his small intestine, and nerve damage from the bullet which affected his left leg above the knee, causing it to atrophy as a result. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Williams It isn't like Muhammad Ali stopped all his training while in exile, he still kept himself in shape so don't use that as an excuse. I will admit that he lost some skill but not alot. If you are going to use the excuse of Ali being "out of prime" because of the exile, then what about the blindness that Joe Frazier had in his left eye. Why don't you account for that? Don't be biased. --> Joe Frazier was to some extent robbed in his second fight against Ali. The referee was horrible and never deducted any points for Muhammad Ali constantly clinching behind the neck. There was also boxing politics at hand. Ali was much more popular than Frazier due to his bravery rejecting the Vietnam war draft. He already lost once to Frazier, so how could the judges make him lose again? It would make Ali look bad which was against the flow at the time. --> The third fight was an amazing performance from both athletes. However, the deciding factor was the blindness in Joe's left eye. If Frazier had vision in his left eye he would have definitely won. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = To conclude, Joe Frazier won the first fight against Ali convincingly, a unanimous decision. The second fight was full of politics and bad refereeing, and the third fight was won by Ali because of the blindness in Frazier's left eye. If both fighters were in perfect health. This means that Frazier would have vision in both eyes and Ali would never have been exiled, the match up would have been even. To say otherwise, is biased. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I await a reply.
This guy is a so called boxing fan. **** off *******. He beat a prime ali Delete this **** thread. Attention *****.
Also, I think Joe Frazier become somewhat lazy and was basking in the fame and wealth he received after giving Muhammad Ali his first loss. I think this is the reason Joe Frazier lost to George Foreman, he wasn't in his prime. He weighed approximately 10lbs heavier in the Foreman fight than in his first fight against Ali, his peak weight. Joe Frazier weighed 205lbs in his first fight against Muhammad Ali. Joe Frazier weighed 214lbs in his first fight against George Foreman. http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=147&cat=boxer So I don't think your argument against Frazier based on George Foreman is valid. Also his second fight against Foreman was when he was way out of his prime, he sustained to much physical and psychological damage after the third fight with Ali.
I'd rate Joe Frazier, a top 20 all time great. Maybe even a top 10. The problem will all time great lists is the fighters are measured on not only their boxing abilities but what they do outside the ring. If outside ring accomplishments are factored in, then it's not really a pure boxing list anymore.
