Joe Frazier, top ten!

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Jerry Quarry II
3. Jimmy Ellis I
4. Jerry Quarry I
5. Joe Bugner
6. Oscar Bonavena II
7. Oscar Bonavena I
8. George Chavulo
9. Buster Mathis
10, Eddie Machen

 

Ali
Ellis 1
Quarry 1
Bonavena 2
Quarry 2
Bonavena 1
Chuvalo
Bugner
Mathis
Machen

 

Bugner may not have had the resume that Quarry did but i firmly believe he was more talented than Quarry or Ellis. He was 6'4 with solid power, good boxing skills. And he went the distance with Ali twice, something neither Ellis or Quarry could ever do.

Ali, Frazier and Holmes all rated Bugner very highly in terms of ability. Bugner lost a close SD to Lyle in 1977. At this point, Bugner seemed to be losing interest in fighting. I think the Bugner of 74-75 would have just about edged Lyle.

All in all, Bugner had the size, the skills etc. to be a top 10 contender in any era. He just didn't have the killer instinct due to tragically seriously injuring a fighter early in his career. Many felt that Bugner rarely punched with his full weight consistently after this fight.

If it weren't for that tragedy, Bugner likely would have had a much better career. Give Bugner Quarry's determination and he is probably the 4th best heavyweight of the 70's. Lots of ability.

 

Frazier has one of the better resumes in heavyweight history. A win over a 29 year old Muhammad Ali is better than almost any win that any ATG heavyweight had.

He also showed he could handle taller skilled boxers like Joe Bugner, who was good enough to be a legit top 10 guy today and stood an impressive 6'4.

He defeated slick master boxers like Jimmy Ellis, an excellent counter puncher in Jerry Quarry, and a rugged guy like Oscar Bonavena who was like the Chisora of his day except better.

The only thing that Frazier's resume lacks are wins over big punchers whom were over 200 lbs. A win over either the big hitting Ron Lyle or the mega hitting Earnie Shavers would have solidified him as a top 10 heavyweight of all time.

However, Ali and Bonavena were both well over 200 lbs and both guys were very good punchers. Both had underrated power and they threw the kitchen sink at Frazier and he managed to take them.

Foreman was about the worst stylistic match up for Joe. For some reason, Foreman was very good at blocking left hooks despite not being a great defensive fighter otherwise. (Notice that when Ali fought Foreman, he stuck to straight punches and rarely threw left hooks since he could see that Foreman was capable of blocking them.)

Without his left hook vs Foreman, he was reduced to a mere punching bag. Yes, he had a solid right to the body but that punch isn't going to be easy to land without running into Foreman's monstrous uppercuts. He was essentially powerless vs Foreman since George took away his only major offensive weapon. I don't think Lyle or Shavers could have taken away his left hook.

Great fighter. Beat every type of style there is except the mega punchers. Unfortunately, the only mega hitter he fought happened to be an impossible stylistic match up. I have Joe in my top 10 all time. At the very least, he is just outside it. But he makes my top 10.

 

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Jimmy Ellis 1
3. Jerry Quarry 1
4. Jerry Quarry 2
5. Oscar Bonavena 2
6. George Chuvalo
7. Oscar Bonavena 1
8. Joe Bugner
9. Buster Mathis
10. Eddie Machen

I rate Ellis as number 2 because he won the Heavyweight tournament and had a string of very good wins.

Despite Quarry having some good wins coming into the rematch with Frazier i feel like he was alot fresher in their 1st fight.

I rate Bonavena 1 slightly lower because Frazier got knocked down twice and it wasn't one of his most impressive performances compared to dominating Chuvalo.

Despite Mathis being undefeated i don't think he was ranked unlike Bugner plus i think Bugner is more proven against notable opposition and has better wins so he goes above Mathis for me.

Machen was at the end of his career but he'd beaten a young Quarry recently so he deserves a top 10 spot for me.

It actually shows Frazier has quite alot of depth to his resume because i'm leaving out....Doug Jones, Bob Foster, Jimmy Ellis 2.

 

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Jimmy Ellis 1
3. Jerry Quarry 1
4. Jerry Quarry 2
5. Joe Bugner
6. Oscar Bonavena 2
7. Oscar Bonavena 1
8. Bob Foster
9. Buster Mathis
10. George Chuvalo
Very top heavy resume great wins over Ali, Ellis and Quarry but after that quality of wins def dips a bit. Hard to rank anyone after Bonavena but his top 7 wins are very solid and his win over Ali is arguably one of the best wins in heavyweight history.

 

Hi Buddy.
A much needed and on point post, we all need reminding of the career and virtues of this most courageous of fighters, and your excellent post does just that, kudos, as for where I rate him in my top ten ( not that I have one ) he would feature in it for sure, maybe not just for his achievements, which were considerable , but for his fortitude, the way he carried himself, how he suffered the slings and arrows, for the pain he must have endured when his children told him all the awful names he was being called, kids too young to know how barbed and downright wrong Ali was to voice such, given that all fighters are brave and lion hearted, Frazier is the mount Rushmore of that title, he was a great fighter, but more importantly a dignified and humble man, the heavyweight landscape and history is all the more richer for having this colossus of a fighter, I am so glad I was lucky enough to have lived alongside the champ.
stay safe dmt, chat soon buddy.

 

1. Muhammad Ali I
2. Jimmy Ellis I
3. Jerry Quarry I
4. Jerry Quarry II
5. Oscar Bonavena II
6. George Chuvalo
7. Oscar Bonavena I
8. Joe Bugner
9. Buster Mathis
10. Bob Foster

 

Some outstanding responses on this thread--BRAVO!!

I also put "Smokin Joe" in my top 10--at his peak he would have been a handful for any HW in history EXCEPT Foreman--(and probably a late 50's early 60's Sonny Liston.) Those guys were kryptonite for Frazier--power punchers with a significant reach advantage along with a sledgehammer left jab--(as the Foreman bouts clearly demonstrate.) Joe needed to bore in and apply pressure to do damage and those jabs would keep him at distance where he couldn't unleash his artillery. And whenever he would try to get inside his style would make him vulnerable (as the Foreman fight showed) to heavy power shots--especially uppercuts.

Bottom line--even an FOTC peak Frazier would have no shot against Big George (or most likely pre 1964 Liston as well.) It's simply too much of a physical and stylistic mismatch!!

 

DMT, I like your passion on the Joe Bugner question and believe me, over the years I've gone back and forth on Bugner. Definitely had the physicality that any heavyweight would envy. Literally had all the tools. But thanks to youtube, I've caught up on a few Bugner fights that needed to be seen. I have always said that those were brilliant performances in the first fight with Ali and the Frazier fight. But most of his fights, he's in LA-La land. The second fight with Ali, which I thought would have been a good fight, Joe resembled a statue for 15 rounds. I watched his 'fight' against Jack Bodell and he was shameless standing there before a fighter he should have broken in half and let him pound away for 15 rounds. Even the Cooper fight, which was his signature win, I recall an early round, maybe the 3rd or 4th where he clearly hurt Cooper to the body and looked like he was going to finish Coop off. But after that ignored the body the rest of the way when he quite clearly had him. I understand he fought with some fire against Jimmy Ellis and Jose Luis Garcia (haven't seen these fights). But this really shows what some have said about Jack Sharkey and Jerry Quarry. Which one is going to show up?