joe frazier: underated or overated?

I rank him as the number 8 heavyweight all time. I have never averaged where others have him, but if it is much higher than that I'd say he's overrated. If it is much lower than that, I'd say he's underrated.

Wait unti this thread runs a bit, and you may have an answer.

 

I think he's underrated. People put too much weight on his loss to Foreman and excuse his biggest win, because Ali was past his prime.

I don't think either are fair at all. For one, I would pick people who were nowhjere near the class of Foreman to beat him on that night. I just think he was done. he wasn't training, he was in bad health, he was...shot. I'm not saying it's not a bad mark on his record, because it obviously is, but you have to take into consideration how badly he had deteriorated. The Ali fight took everything he had out of him. Combine that with the underconditioning for this fight and it was inevitable.

I don't like the idea that people write-off his win over Ali because he was old. Ali cemented his legacy after their first fight and went on to beat some great fighters after this. Both men weren't at their best for this fight, and Ali probably came in stronger. Frazier was already worn as a fighter, and his best years were at the last 60's. Why does no-one mention this?

Frazier was a fantastic fighter who beats most ATG's.

 

I don't believe he was far past his peak when he met George, but a lot of peope seem to.

He was still in his 20' when he fought George, and he was still able to fight after the Foreman fight. I'll admit he never quite looked the same after the Foreman fight, as he did before it. He still went on to have some good performances though. I still blame his strategy against Foreman in the first fight. Frazier did better in their rematch, and this was a few years and a lot of damage later.

I still say Frazier is a top 10 all timer, but I think top 5 is too much.

 

My all-time #12 Heavyweight. He had a massive advantage over most Heavies in that he fought in the golden era of the division and met top notch opposition. And with the exception of Ali and Foreman he showed his dominance*

*Norton I suppose as well; but I think that is similar(ish) to putting down Wlad or Vitali for not fighting each other...

 

You make it sound like he should have been on an invalid pension or life support Jack. To be honest i think you exaggerate a bit on this one.

 

A bit underrated. Wins against Ellis,Quarry,Bugner,Foster,Bonavena,Mathis,Chuvalo,Machen. Victories over those journeymen with names don't sound bad.
Ali was just too tricky and Foreman too powerful and big for Frazier. Although he had some tremendous shots against Ali and could take loads of punches. Unfortunately he couldn't take Foreman's monster-haymaker.

 

Frziers most famous fights are the three with Ali and the two with Foreman,five fights of which he won one,after beating a comebacking Ali in his best fight Frazier defended against Terry Daniels and Ron Stander,this hurts his legacy in my book,one of his number one contenders wa s Leotis Martin ,Fraziers people didnt want that fight ,nor one against an aging Liston,Frazier a great fighter ,but he just makes my topten,his wins over Quarry were impressive but Manuel Ramos and Dave Zygliewiz dont cut it for me.

 

very interesting.can you qualify all of this?

 

I would have him around number 6 heavyweight of all time, and above Rocky Marciano for what it's worth.

 

Ellis, Quarry, Foster etc were journeymen. LOL. Frazier was undefeated til he lost to Foreman. He only lost to 2 fighters - both all-time greats. He should be in the top 10.