joe frazier: underated or overated?

He was an excellent fighter.

 

Far harder,but nowhere near as often,Ali said of Frazier,"whatever the price he will pay it".

 

Yeah, Frazier's long term intensity is frightening.

 

"The greatest left hook in history"who exactly out of top ten rated Heavies did Frazier put down for the count of ten?

 

I generally rate him around 8-9, but I think that I might underrate him slightly in terms of head-to-head matchups. Foreman, and perhaps Lewis notwithstanding, I can't think of two many heavyweights in history who wouldn't have an easy time with him at or near his absolute best.

 

In Ali's 1975 autobiography, "The Greatest: My Own Story" ghostwritten by Richard Durham, Frazier is quoted as claiming during a long drive he took Muhammad on during Ali's exile that he was the fastest closing heavyweight champion of all time coming forward. While I think Dempsey actually has that distinction, this claim for Smoke is not far off at all. (My favorite line in the book has Ali thinking while Foreman is struggling to beat the count that, "No referee could count ten over Joe Frazier as long as his body had blood in it," or words to that effect. After this book was published, Joe once again demonstrated the veracity of that statement in his rematch with Foreman.)

As I've discussed previously, I'm not sure that Smoke could have ever taken George in a first time matchup, although he demonstrated against Stander that he could perform extremely well against a powerful advance. (Just check out his excellent footwork at the end of round four on youtube! After watching his brilliant outmaneuvering of the bull Stander, it's easy to understand why he was expected by most to repel Foreman's challenge. In Smoke's final successful title defense, he showed he was perfectly capable of playing the matador's role.) But while a peak Joe might not have been able to take George in a first time bout, I have always believed Frazier would have defeated more of history's other greats than Foreman might, so that's why I rate Joe higher, despite the head to head outcomes.

 

Prime Joe Frazier at 203-208 lbs gives every heavyweight in history a very tough fight, even Foreman.

 

Journeyman? You have either had a lapse in judgment or just don't know what your talking about. Foster was one of the greatest lightheavys of all time, Ellis won a version of the heavyweight title via a tournament and was a top contender for years and Quarry was a top 10 heavyweight for years and was the #1 contender on more than one occasion.

Think before you type in the future!

 

You are an apparent idiot.

 

The problem with a Top 10 rating in any sport is as time goes by more quality fighters (& teams) become available to bump out other greats just because of familiarity.

If modern boxing starts in 1895, then the sport is 112 years old and that is a lot of champions.

All those poor quality films of the oldtimers don't do justice to them....the left hooks and right crosses they threw knocked out opponents the same way the same punches do today.

So was Frazier a super Champion ?, to me me YES, just like Ali, Louis, Dempsey, The Rock, Tyson, Lewis, etc, and NOT like Terrell, Jimmy Ellis, and the "this week champions" of the Alphabet Boys we have today.

 

:rofl

 

:good :hi:

 

Stander wasn't a great fighter, but he was game. I can’t see Stander as a top 10 fighter today. Stander had his share of moment’s vs Frazier. At one point he even buckled Frazier’s knees.

While Frazier had great closing speed ( He chewed up and spit out smaller boxer types ), I think he lack of elite level power, combined with a suspect chin to punchers would make it extremely difficult for him to defeat the bigger / stronger / more durable punchers.

However Frazier isn't gimped in a head to head sense. He was a boxer's worst nightmare, full of stamina and relentless pressure. Jimmy Young had the right stuff to foil Foreman. Billy Conn had the right stuff to bother Joe Louis. Neither Conn nor Young does well vs Frazier.

 

Joe's definitely an all-time top-10 heavyweight--any ranking that puts him lower underrates him IMHO. He has a very good resume with impressive wins over Ellis, Mathis, Quarry, Bugner, Bonavena, Chuvalo, Bob Foster--(all high ranked contenders when he fought them). His first win against Ali is a victory in perhaps the greatest fight in boxing history! Frazier's only sub-par bouts were the 2 losses to Foreman. The first one I honestly think Joe came in flabby, out of shape, and didn't prepare well at all--the second was at the very end of his career after two all out wars against Muhammad Ali--his tank was basically empty. Joe Frazier absolutely belongs in the top-10 for all time heavyweights.