Joe Frazier - Underrated or Overrated ?

Ellis rematch was against a washed up Ellis, that one wasn't impressive. Ellis was 1-4-1 in his last 6 fights.

 

Frazier would be competitive against most great heavyweights. He’d struggle mightily against the massive guys like Lennox & the Klitchkos. Foreman always beats him. Holmes would be interesting. I’d give Tyson an edge but Frazier has a shot. Frazier has a great shot against Louis & Marciano. I think I’d give him an edge against those two. Holyfield would be a great fight & could go either way.

Bottomline for me is that Frazier embodies what a true warrior in the ring is.

 

Underated , absurdly so ... he fought most of his career near blind in one eye ... P4P he's a top five all time heavyweight ...

 

Rated fairly. Never seen anyone put him above the top 10-5 range at heavyweight, which is right where I have him.

 

Also anyone who suggests that Frazier was a cruder version of Marciano shouldn't be allowed to reproduce

 

Overrated if he is being ranked top 10, but I don't know if that is a consensus these days.

I would rate him similarly to Mike Tyson

 

That's one heck of a opinion written with
a brutal eloquence... Lol.

 

Wow?! Top 5? I am a pretty big Frazier fan and can’t really see much of a case for top 5. I think 7-12 is reasonable. I rate him on my 8-10 tier.

1-2 Louis/Ali
3-4 Holmes/Lewis
5-6 Wlad/Foreman
7-10 Marciano/Frazier/Holyfield/Tyson
11-13 Johnson/Liston/Dempsey

I would love to see him in the top 5 I just can’t make a case for it.

 

Frazier is a top ten ATG in my opinion.
His four losses came against two
top five ATG'S . He did beat a
ATG in Ali who most think is
the greatest heavyweight in history (Rightly so)
He didn't lose to any fighters that was seen as
just good or decent.
Unlike Louis, Lewis, Holyfield, The Kleichko Brothers and Tyson in their
primes...
He'd be a nightmare for any heavyweight that didn't have the physicality
AND unique skill-set of George Foreman.
In other words just being "big" or "bigger" than
George Foreman won't guarantee a win against him .

 

This post says it all. Joe is definitely in my top 10 all time great heavies.

 

He was a rough around the edges fighter who got by because he was tough- he tore a bloody hole through the division and at the height of his rampage beat the best HW of the 60s and 70s.

I don’t think he could’ve beat a lot of guys in history honestly- Ali’s loss to Frazier was a lot like Louis’s to Schemling- Futch took advantage of some technical flaws Muhammad had and I don’t know how Frazier would’ve done without it.

Ali beat Joe the second time by “borderline” cheating whilst still displaying the same flaws.

Frazier to note had been an alcoholic for a long time and really did burnout very quickly, not so much his style and more his outside the ring habits like Tyson.

The third fight proved nothing that we didn’t already know- both fought like men with no tomorrow.

BUT- After Ali what does he have? The only guy on a similar calibre as he (Foreman) utterly overwhelmed him but Joe was out of shape and was arguably shot…. It’s hard to say what he could’ve done if he wasn’t so tied up trying to fight Ali.

 

I'm skeptical.

FOTC made him look bigger than life

even then, I always had the sense he was vulnerable in some way

Nothing against Joe but he lacks the versatility of the elites and the punishment he took was horrible

You can only get so far on a left hook

This tells me Joe would be overmatched against the Bowes, the Holmes', the Tysons, Lewis' and the Furys

I would even favor a young Holyfield over him. He has a better punch than Ali and he's tough

 

I’m fine with where he’s at.

 

He's fine.