Joe Frazier vs Alexander Povetkin

I wouldn't favor Frazier over Povetkin, but I think Frazier has a much better chance against Povetkin than against the superheavyweights. It's a fight where either side could make reasonable arguments. Frazier was better in the context of his era than Povetkin was, but Povetkin and the guys of his era had advantages Frazier didn't. Some of them illegal.

Personally, I've always seen Povetkin as a bit of a damp squib. He was near the top for a while, but never managed to dominantly separate himself from the guys at that level. Sort of like a Ken Norton figure.

Frazier is obviously greater than Povetkin, but being greater doesn't mean you win the fight. It's not a sharp Frazier-sucks-or-Povetkin-sucks dichotomy.

EDIT: And of course Frazier could get stopped by Povetkin. Povetkin hit pretty darn hard, and consistently, and is a better puncher than almost all of the guys Frazier fought. It would be very strange not to consider his chances of stopping Frazier with a protective ref. You yourself conceded that you could foresee him scoring one or two knockdowns on Frazier -- Do you think Frazier was chinny?

 

At the end of the day consistent Skillset is on film and objective, and I wouldn't be so sure about that, Cleveland Williams might have been the pioneer of PED users, just an unpopular opinion. They were widespread by the 80s and that takes time. They also had cocaine

 

I can't believe some folks are underrating a prime Frazier who has one of the greatest wins in heavyweight history (Ali) and quality wins over Bugner, Bonavena and Quarry. Jesus Christ. Frazier's resume is way way better.

Povetkin was quite well rounded but his resume is very very weak. Nothing he did would make one think he could devestate Frazier.

Foreman was a bigger puncher than Povetkin. Foreman was also extremely strong and was able to bully Frazier and he was great at fighting off the backfoot. Totally opposite of Povetkin.

I can see the fight being competitive and i can even see someone giving Povetkin a chance but the idea that he would devastate Frazier like Foreman is utterly absurd and perhaps not even worth entertaining a conversation.

And bringing up the Jumbo Cummings fight, i mean Jesus Christ.

 

Povetkin's positive tests are as objective as it gets.

 

There's another thread where posters are debating how far gone Sonny Liston was for Leotis Martin.

 

The fight getting stopped because of 2 knockdowns is pretty unlikely if it were competitive beforehand like I expect it to be. That is more likely to take place when the fight is one sided. I can also see Povetkin outworked up close and broken down to a late stoppage and I think thats more likely, dudes soul was ready to go when Marco pushed that pace in round 7. Don't think the Foreman loss is relevant here.

 

Wow, that really puts it in perspective. He threw more punches in 12 than Frazier threw in 15? So much for the 'swarmer'.

 

Frazier by KO.

 

^ Basically an admission that 70's Foreman and 90's Foreman are not the same fighter. Did you forget the point in question? Old Man Foreman fought a field picked especially to play to his changed style. 70's Foreman had a chin that could be cracked, 90s version did not.

Povetkin had a bad night. It happens. Yet he still got the W.

Should we laser focus on the version of Frazier that got taken the distance by George "Scrap Iron" Johnson?

Jesus Christ, the guy was a professional loser and yet Frazier couldn't pack him away! This guy had been knocked out 12 (TWELVE) times and Frazier could not dent him! He even had Frazier rocked in the fourth and by all accounts it was lucky Frazier didn't kiss the floor. Holy hell, a 11-16 (later 20-28) guy gave Joe all he could handle! THIS Joe fella is the guy that you want to feed to Povetkin? OMG what are you doing?

So you agree Chambers was bigger than Foreman. Excellent.

You think that's the only fight where Povetkin threw a metric ****ton of punches? Chambers couldn't throw a lot because he was getting lit up. I'm also glad we have progressed from your claim that Chambers ran Povetkin close to your new claim that he was "throwing 10 punches" You ought to watch the fights that you bring up

Facts: It's easy for Mathis to look good when his menu consists of utter soup cans like Sonny Andrews (3-10) Marty Franklin (debut) Sonny Moore (19-25) or Waban Thomas (16-11). His resume consists of the mattress world of fighters at the time. Everytime Mathis stepped it up in class he got the F knocked out of him. Wait, no. He has 1 decent win: Chuvalo, a guy who is more famous for his ability for eating punches than winning world titles. Takam has Perez, Thompson and Grant on his ledger, he put up a good fight against Parker and Chisora before losing; he puts up a good fight whenever he's tagged into the ring. Takam would bury Mathis.

 

No they're not the same fighter, prime Foreman is superior and I can quote experienced trainers who agree with me. You can't. "70's Foreman had a chin that could be cracked, 90s version did not." Or maybe Lyle hits harder than Tommy Morrison and Shannon Briggs, Foreman himself put Ron in his top 3 biggest punchers, but even little cruiserweight Holyfield had 90s Foreman on wobbly legs, and how much bigger was Foreman in that fight ? Lololololol. Also prime Foreman has better wins, so just drop it.

Prove it was an off night. What was the problem with Povetkin ? Hucks approach was the problem. Povetkin is one of the most consistent contenders ever.

https://boxrec.com/wiki/images/5/5f/Redlands_Daily_Facts_(1967-05-05).jpg

Frazier dominated him for the vast majority of the fight, everyone ringside thought the scores should've been wider, but i got something for that ass. Klitschko went the distance with professional loser Everett Martin who has a WORSE win to loss ratio than George Johnson and got knocked out 12(TWELVE) times and Klitshcko could not put a dent in him in their first fight

Klitshcko also was literally knocked out by Ross Purrity who had 13 losses and he was 25 fights in, Frazier 15. That doesn't change the great feats they accomplished. You're grasping at straws and advancing false equivalences as usual, but it's par for the course.

Chambers already let his foot off the gas before Povetkin started teeing off. Notice how Povetkin also scored 0 knockdowns against the much smaller man despite your claims of Pov teeing off on him, but has destroyed much bigger fighters. Make that make sense

Whats funny is Parker got rocked by an unranked cruiserweight who Opetaia dominated and stopped in 6, and Parker had 30 pounds on the guy, couldn't drop him once, but these guys would dominate elite smaller guys right? Don't make me laugh. Thanks for admitting Buster looked good, by your own admission. Proves that skillset transcends eras. Mathis looked better against the more skilled Frazier, and body mechanics are objective, Mathis had superior fundamentals and athleticism, never lost below world level unlike Takam, it's on camera for everyone to see

"Takam would Bury Mathis"

Takam got his face boxed off by Gregory Tony.

His best win is the unproven Abdusalamov and a loss to Briedis lmao. Thompson was shot and 42. Mentioning Grant is insane. Theres no way you just said that BS Do Better. He was absolutely shot to pieces. Dude is literally a relic from the late 1990s and early 2000s and the fact you think Takam beating him in 2013 is noteworthy says everything about how dry the pool is and how desperate you are trying to promote this nonesense. How in the world can someone see you mention Shot Thomspon and Grant in mid 2010s as good wins and like your post

I won't be letting you off the hook either. Yet again your size queen arguments were debunked by Mathis being big and skilled yet still being unable to dominate the 1970s. Put that in your pipe and smoke it

 

I agree 70s Foreman was better than the 90s but I think it wouldn't be a shock if he had a better chin in 90s. 90s Foreman took a lot of punches in a era of bigger heavyweights than the 70s and never hit the deck once.

 

Could be true, he still got rocked by a much smaller man in Holyfield compared to his heavier opponents

 

That 17 punch combo or so was pretty big though but yeah.

 

Foreman believed his older self would defeat 70s Foreman. Does he count as an expert on this issue?

https://nypost.com/2021/02/05/george-foreman-weighs-in-on-secret-behind-tom-bradys-post-40-success/

As also reported on this site, referencing and summarizing the original article:

https://www.boxing247.com/boxing-ne...s-younger-self-decisioned-muhammad-ali/170087