Joe Frazier vs. Cleveland Williams.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by MURK20, Dec 1, 2019 at 7:27 AM.


  1. MURK20

    MURK20 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Who wins and who in your opinion was the harder puncher?
     
  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cincinnati Cobra Full Member

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  3. Fergy

    Fergy Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Im gonna say Frazier.. But William s certainly had some power in his gloves, so maybe Joe gets floored in the first couple of rounds. But I don't see Cleveland keeping him down and once Joe gets that relentless, grinding motion going, it's only a matter of time before Cleve ends up badly hurt. I don't see this fight going past the sixth tbh.
    As for harder puncher, I'll go with Joe but William s no feather fist.
     
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  4. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Full Member

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    Why is it Frazier gets floored but not Williams??
     
  5. Eye of Timaeus

    Eye of Timaeus Member Full Member

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    He realises Frazier was the original Buster Douglas.
     
  6. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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  7. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Frazier. Williams never knocked out much less beat anyone remotely in Frazier's class.
     
  8. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Full Member

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    Try making sense befor you post
     
  9. Fergy

    Fergy Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I never says that William s didn't get floored, but Joe was a notorious slow starter at times and could be dropped early. And against a fella who could punch, then I see a good chance of it happening. But notice I said Frazier ends up battering him, which I'm sure you'll agree with?
     
  10. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Williams could bang, there’s no doubt about that and I think he’d be a live proposition early on, but I think Frazier would eventually wear him down and stop him in 7 or 8 rounds.
     
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  11. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Williams never beat anyone close to Frazier's class - Frazier by KO before 5
     
  12. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Addict Full Member

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  13. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Idealism must not be staunched by safety Full Member

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    I agree
     
  14. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Frazier overall had the most power in his lefthook. His right was a decent punch but Williams probably had more on his.
     
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  15. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    When we talk about mythical matchups, there's always the tendency to say "this guy was better, so he wins." And leave it at that.

    But upsets happen. The guy with the best career doesn't always beat the guy on the cusp who seems to come up a little short time and time again.

    Joe Frazier vs. Cleveland WIlliams could be one of those upsets. Like Norton was to Ali, Williams could've been that for Frazier.

    Sort of like if Joe Frazier fought a George Foreman who didn't hit quite as hard, so Joe could stick around a bit and also do what he liked to do.

    I think the late 50s/early 60s version of the Big Cat is a very live underdog in this one.

    I don't think it would've been like the Williams-Liston fights. Sonny Liston had a great jab, which bothered Williams. Frazier didn't have that jab.

    Williams punched hard, and you didn't have to be a monster puncher to stagger or drop Joe. Bonavena had him down twice early in their first fight. Mike Bruce had him down early. Foreman had him down six times in two rounds. Ali staggered him badly in round two of their rematch. Hell, even Manuel Ramos had Frazier staggered in the first round of their fight. I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting. Williams learned Liston wasn't so easily rocked or staggered.

    Seems like Williams had the size, the tools and power that would've bothered Frazier and Joe didn't have things (like size and a strong jab) that kept Williams from doing what he wanted.

    Frazier also tended to swell when he got hit a lot. Not only Ali but Bugner had Joe's eye closed tight.

    Frazier, no doubt, would be a big favorite. But it would be fascinating.

    Might also be like Patterson-Johansson, where Willliams knocks Frazier down a bunch of times and stops him. Then Joe comes back and knocks out Williams with a left hook. Then they fight three times and they both take turns knocking each other down.

    Or it might be like Tyson-Ruddock, where Ruddock gives Tyson hell, but maybe doesn't bother other top fighters as bad.

    Who knows.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019 at 9:11 AM


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