Joe Frazier vs. Late 60's & all 70's big punchers

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by OBCboxer, Aug 21, 2008.


  1. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I agree with the overall body of this post.

    Too many assume that just because Foreman defeated Frazier in convincing fashion, that any man who had a sting to his punch could have easily beaten him. This logic is horribly flaud. Foreman had a style that was tayor made to beat Frazier, and was dissimilar to that of many all time great sluggers. Additionally, you commented on the fact that Joe was slightly on the decline when fighting Foreman. While I do not feel that even a peak Joe could have beaten George, I happen to think that a prime Frazier would have matched up better against a lot of other punchers. Lastly, Foreman was a concencus all time hard puncher who had to deck Joe multiple times, before a referee intervention took place. It wasn't like George hit him once on the chin, and it was good night.
     
  2. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Honestly, if the best Bonavena could do was floor Frazier in two fights, what the hell more is Floyd Patterson, Duane Bobbick or Ken Norton going to do?
     
  3. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Anyway, one of Foreman's greatest asset was that he threw his hooks from the floor. Those unbelievably powerful hooker cuts of his that he used his entire career.

    Frazier came in low, and the way he did this let Foreman have a field day with him.

    Fighters like Ruddock, Lennox Lewis, and even Vitali (As mentioned) could at the least floor Frazier in Foreman like fashion.
     
  4. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Frazier had all but 11 pro fights when he met Bonavena who was a 23 fight veteran, and coming off a win over Chuvalo, yet Frazier still won. I do not think that if we took a prime Frazier from the fight of the century, that he'd lose to Bobick, Norton or Patterson..
     
  5. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Where does this logic come from? While those men certainly had size dimensions, plus sufficient power to floor or KO Frazier, what else did they have in common with Foreman stylistically? Ruddock, for example was a one punch, one dimensional fighter, and his signature bomb was the left hook. What similarities do you see between him and Foreman? Lewis had a great jab and right hand, but hardly threw the kind of " hookercuts " that you described. Vitali was just big and strong, but still had nothing in common with Foreman, outside of shear size and brute strength.
     
  6. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    You're having a hard time imagining Lennox leaning on Frazier like Ali but more pronounced and then uppercutting him at the same time?

    Vitali also winged shots from the floor, coming up.

    I didn't say any of them would beat Frazier, but I've seen them throw similar shots to what Foreman managed to floor Frazier with.
     
  7. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Sorry, but I don't see the commonalities. In what fights did you see Vitali, Lennox and Ruddock ( whom you omitted ), show Foremanesque type traits?
     
  8. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Just a general trend I've seen in a few of their fights. Throwing uppercuts that I think would catch Frazier.

    I don't feel either is much like Foreman, but I still think their punches would connect, and hard, with Frazier.
     
  9. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    What general trends are we talking about? How similar were they to Foreman's punches? how often did they throw them? Who did they throw them against, and what did they have in common with Frazier? Please explain and provide an analysis..
     
  10. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    You're asking me for a thesis for a very general thought I put out there.

    Uppercuts against a fighter coming in like Frazier can be effective.

    An example? Who threw what against what fighter?

    Vitali almost killed Danny William's with a double uppercut.
     
  11. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    General thoughts do not qualify for analysis. If you have something to say in general, please explain in detail.


    Fine, but how was that comparable to the hooker cuts that Foreman threw, and how was Danny Williams anything like Frazier? And what about the other guys you mentioned?
     
  12. Muchmoore

    Muchmoore Guest


    Frazier takes apart the much faded 69 Liston, batters Foster (Mac had great power and the style to perhaps beat Joe but you have to be on somewhat of the same level to take advantage of it) Frazier takes Lyle out late but it would be a good fight, Shavers has a shot early on but Frazier takes Shavers out in about 5 rounds, Patterson wasn't really a big puncher and Frazier knocks him out as well. Norton would be KOED, and Cooper, well wasn't nearly good enough to trouble a prime Frazier. Same goes with Bobick.

    The only quality fighters there that could even trouble Frazier are Norton, Shavers for a round or two, and Lyle. Frazier grinds out the rest without much problem.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Lewis often threw effective uppercuts,likewise Ruddock,Vitali could dominate behind the jab and come over the top with hard rights ,Foreman showed these traits in several fights,what do you want ,Russell to give you a detailed punchstat from all their fights? Lewis would undoubtedly use his weight to lean on Frazier,ala Ali,Russell didnt say these men would beat Frazier ,but that they could floor him ,I think that's a reasonable statement.
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Are we talking power here? If so in any fight where they ( Vitali, Lennox, or Ruddock ) were matched vs smaller and weaker opponents.

    Vitlai had two fights with blown up curisers ( Hide and Norris ) who were champ at Crusier. They lasted a combined three rounds. VItlai nealry took Ed Mahone's head off, with a KO punch that made his chin to a scary 180 degree turn.

    Lewis showed amazing power vs Ruddock, Golota, amd Rhaman II. On par with any Foreman knockout.

    Ruddock had some impressive KO's as well with his " Smash " punch, a wild half hook, half uppercut type of blow.
     
  15. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    That was the only fight we've seen Vitali uppercut, if you take a prime Vitali he won't be uppercutting, WIlliams at 280lbs was a human punch bag anyway