Joe Frazier .vs. Mike Tyson

oops.. Wrong thread...

 

Yep I like Fraizer. I respect him greatly as a man and a fighter. I think the way he conducted himself through years of Ali's tasteless remarks was admirable. I think the way he has dedicated himself to boxing while staying true to his roots is truely remarkable. I think he was as brave a fighter as they come.

But I think Tyson would walk through him in the same way Foreman did only quicker.
I beleive that Frazier did not beat any significant heavyweights other than Ali and i don't think you can call a fighter a legend based on his ability to best one single opponent. A legend has to beat a series of top opponents over a number of years which I don't think Frazier did. At the top level Frazier did not, in my opinion, put togther a meaningful win streak against decent fighters. His top fights other than Ali and Foreman seem to be rematches over guy he already beat earlier in his career so even his 32 wins reflect a somewhat padded career.

 

Tyson woulda killed Frazier. Mike was bigger, stronger, faster, much better chin, better defense, just about everything over Frazier except stamina, but stamina wouldnt come into play cuz Joe wouldnt get a chance to start smokin. Tyson's uppercuts would find a home on Frazier right away, and once Joe's hurt... no way Tyson lets him off the hook. Tyson KO 4.

 

LOL, now Tyson has no right hand power and his left is weak too in comparison to George?

Botha, by no means a chinny guy or a bum was axed aka totally out with ONE right hand that traveled about 6-8 inches................the Truth , again not chinny or a bum was axed with ONE left hook and was in lala land aka done...............plus both guys are not small either.

How many one shot KO's above the tomatoe can level (George's usual diet, first and second career) against quality , let say top 15 opposition has he scored ? Moorer? Glass chinned lthwt?

Berbick, a big , strong , proud above average chinned fighter with a excellent trainer/corner tried the mano di mano approach and we all know the outcome.

Going head to head with Mike has only one outcome, you get Ko'ed , hard. You need movement ,heart, size plus a great jab, strengh in the clinch and a great chin to have a shot at winning.

Frazier has only heart, sorry, it ain't enough.

BTW, I have been around for almost half a century, and yes, I witnessed the Frazier era.

 

While I can see why you would pick Tyson by early KO, you don't seem to have a clue about Frazier in general. Please give me a quick recap of his career and rise to the top to show me you're not as ignorant as you seem.

 

You have no clue about Frazier and are seriously underrating him. In only his twelfth pro fight, he overcame serious adversity by overcoming two knockdowsn to beat the tough Oscar Bonavena. In his next fight he beat the vastly experienced Eddie Machen a former title challenger. Beat a sloid journeyman Doug Jones. Then he stops one of the toughest men in history in George Chuvalo. Beat fellow olympian and undefeated Buster Mathis, then Bonavena again. Beats Quarry, Ellis and Foster to unify the division.

Then he beats one of the greatest of all time in Ali and defends his title twice more before being TKOed by Foreman. The rest is history. He's beaten plenty of goos fighters and his record is some of the least padded in history.

 

Don't get me wrong.

P4P, I rank Frazier significantly higher than Tyson.

But head to head, I think Tyson takes it. If nothing else, because Frazier starts slow, wouldn't be able to use his bob and weave tactics as effectively, and did not match up too well against the murderous puncher that was George Foreman.

Combine that with Tyson's handspeed, and I predict an early end for Smokin' Joe.

 

One scenario is if Frazier can survive the Tyson onslaught then he would most likely win by late round TKO. Tyson would be discouraged greatly as he sees Joe rise from the canvas and still come after him an hit him hard with left hook. Tyson needs to get him out by round 3, if not then Joe's chances get better and better. I would say that Frazier holds advantages on the inside and has to back him up. If he can back Tyson up, he wins the fight. I predict he will. Frazier TKO 11.

 

This could go either way. However, the deciding factor would be that Frazier & Tyson are the opposite of each other at the beginning of a bout.

Joe was a notoriously slow starter, while Tyson is probably the fastest starter in HW history.

Even against Ali in March 71, which is considered to be Frazier's peak, Joe still took a lot of punishment, an indication that he would have to take a shot to land one. This was not the case with a peak Tyson.

Tyson would have too much variety for Frazier imo. Fight is rescued in the third.

 

Conditioning DID play a part in Frazier's loss to Foreman. Frazier was far from the prime condition he exhibited in the late 1960's and barely trained for George. Eddie Futch was fearful of Frazier's lackadaisical approach to the training for the title defense. Sure, it's Frazier's own fault for underestimating Big George and not respecting the fact that he was a gold medalist himself. Still, If Joe paid George the same dedication to training he did during the late 1960's, especially with regards to Ali, Foreman would NOT have blown Frazier out in two rounds.

1967 - 1970 Frazier was cut, quicker, showed much better head movement and had more snap in his left hook, as opposed to the fighter who faced George in 1973.

Frazier is slightly taller than Tyson yet he fights significantly lower. There would be no advantage in terms of height and reach for Tyson against Frazier. Frazier actually had a right hand as well. Too many people on this forum conclude that Frazier was basically a one armed fighter throughout his career. Funny, I never saw Frazier tie one arm behind his back in his fights only to throw the left hook all night? What a joke! The man landed serious right hand against Quarry, Ali, Manuel Ramos and Joe Bugner. When Frazier put his mind to his right hand, it was actually a decent punch that I remember rocking Ali back on the ropes a couple of steps. The fact that he was a converted southpaw gives him natural power on the right side in the orthodox boxing stance.

Frazier in the condition that he was did OK for the first minute of the 1973 fight, landing a couple solid left hooks. What happened next was Mercante turning a blind eye to the rules, allowing Foreman to push, shove and grab Frazier's shoulders. Watch the first round of the 1973 fight and you should know exactly what I'm talking about.

Tyson KO's the 1973 Frazier probably in three or four rounds, unlike Foreman who did it in two.

Tyson and Foreman get KO'd inside 10 rounds by the 1967- 1970 pre-FOTC Joe Frazier.

 

Frazier would have too much endurance, heart and body shots for Tyson, who gets knocked out before the middle rounds.

 

Id go with Tyson

 

Tyson has alot of physical advantages here but all the times Ive thought about this it boils down to one thing...HEART... which is why Joe would be the last man standing.

 

Gatti had a lot of heart...........Corrales had a lot of heart..............Hatton has a lot of heart.......etc ect but once you are out -gunned sped manouvered skilled you are toast and your heart can't do a god damn thing about it.

 

Reality is, heart didn't save him from getting annihilated from a comparitively weak-hearted Foreman.