joe frazier vs ron lyle and earnie shavers....

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by shommel, Aug 29, 2008.


  1. shommel

    shommel Boxing Addict Full Member

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    big shots in each fight. can frazier win over both?
     
  2. clark

    clark Well-Known Member Full Member

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    A 1971 Frazier would have TKO'd Shavers and Lyle. Lyle might have the chance to go the distance because of his tremendous chin but
    would have lost the decision. There is a chance Joe might get stung early by either fighter and go down but Joe would still get up to win.
     
  3. shommel

    shommel Boxing Addict Full Member

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    yeah but look at what lyle did to foreman(he almost knokcked him out) then look at what foreman did tok frazier. i think lyle has his ticket, dont know bout shavers though.
     
  4. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Frazier could have easily beaten both, or easily lost to both. It really depends on what he managed to get dome early against those foes. Of course, I do feel that if the fight went beyond the 5th round, Frazier would be favored to beat both. Shavers was not known for being a great fighter over the long haul, and Lyle while having reasonable stamina, wouldn't out last a fight of the century Frazier.
     
  5. CottoDaBodykill

    CottoDaBodykill Boxing Addict Full Member

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    but then you have to consider ..foreman was post ali ..wasn't there in his right mind .. and still managed to pull the trigger agianst lyle ..on the flip side..lyle has no where the power foreman had to do what he did to frazier ... those A+B=C style match ups don't even work .
     
  6. shommel

    shommel Boxing Addict Full Member

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    lyle knocked foreman down just as easy as foreman knocked frazier down, in fact lyle might just of possibly hit harder(he just happened to get kod first). as far as the endurance thing i believe frazier is the better conditioned athlete of the other two. swing fights could go either way. jmo
     
  7. CottoDaBodykill

    CottoDaBodykill Boxing Addict Full Member

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    you still can't go by that ... point in case ... lennox lewis hits much harder then riddick bowe ...yet look what bowe did to a prime version of holyfield as opposed to what lennox couldn't do with a faded version of holyfield ..
     
  8. Jack

    Jack Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Foreman was suited to Lyle because he'd stand there and trade with him. Frazier had much better movement than Foreman did, so Lyle isn't going to be landing his hardest shots at will.

    Frazier takes this one.

    He probably takes a slight beating in the early rounds, losing 2 or the first 3 and recieving some clean punches, but when he gets into his rhythm, starts breaking Lyle down with shots to the body. Lyle goes down in 8/9 and doesn't get back up.
     
  9. round15

    round15 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Prime Frazier KO's both inside 10 rounds. I think the argument is there that Lyle and Shavers could have given Frazier serious trouble and quite possibly beat him if they fought in the mid-1970's. Definitely Shavers and Lyle have legitimate shots at beating the Frazier that Foreman destroyed in 1973. Neither man is beating a prime Frazier.
     
  10. Vantage_West

    Vantage_West ヒップホップ·プロデューサー Full Member

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    look at what norton did to ali then look at what ali did to norton

    thus look at what ali did to himself :huh :huh :huh :huh



    it's best not to put it tha way of who beats who.
     
  11. Marciano Frazier

    Marciano Frazier Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Frazier was well over the hill for the Foreman rematch. Foreman was rusty and underconfident for the Lyle fight.

    Moreover, a single superior common-opponent result does not in and of itself dictate the result of a meeting between two fighters. In terms of total records against common opponents, Lyle is 7-3 with 3 knockouts against opponents he has in common with Frazier, while Frazier is 12-4 with 7 knockouts, a superior win-loss record AND knockout average in spite of having a much tougher end of the comparison, with five fights against Ali and Foreman, compared with Lyle's two. As for Shavers, Frazier is 8-2 with 6 knockouts against common opponents with Earnie, compared with Shavers' 3-3 with 3 knockouts.

    Lyle and Shavers hit hard, but did not have either the offensive prowess, physical advantages or durability of a Foreman. Lyle was not so fast a starter- note he never won a first-round knockout in his entire professional career- or hard a hitter- note he won less than 60% of his pro fights by knockout- as a guy like Foreman, nor did he have a chin that stacked up with George. The Foreman fight (in which, again note, Foreman hadn't had a real professional fight in over a year and was probably not himself mentally in the wake of the Ali defeat) gives people the image of Lyle as being sort of George's twin brother, but this is not the case. It is futher worth noting that Frazier was on the decline even when he lost to Foreman the first time, having gained 10 pounds of fat, lost a lot of his intensity and had a couple of so-so performances against journeymen post-Ali; I would bet that a 1968-71 Joe would have been substantially more competitive with Foreman than the '73 version was.

    Now, all this taken into account, I would be very surprised if Lyle managed to stop a peak Joe Frazier. A much more likely outcome would be a mid-late stoppage for Joe, who would murder Lyle to the body and keep him out of his element, in my view.

    As for Shavers, let me highlight again his even-more-inferior record against common opponents, at 3-3 to Frazier's 8-2, and further, his all-around inferiority as a fighter, as evidenced by his beating at the hands of .500-record Bob Stallings, one-round annihilation by Quarry, etc. Shavers certainly packed a monstrous punch, but he didn't have the physical advantages (height, weight, reach, strength- note he was almost exactly the same size as Frazier), durability or all-around offensive arsenal of a guy like Foreman. Shavers certainly has a puncher's chance, but so does Frazier, and his is much more likely to come into effect, and Frazier is much more likely to win given most other departments of the game.
     
  12. shommel

    shommel Boxing Addict Full Member

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    all i can say is WOW great answer.:p
     
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    It depends in what year the match is made. Frazier could have gone 2-0, 1-1, or 0-2. I get the sense, Lyle would have beat Frazier in the mid 1970's.

    Frazier wasn't the same post Foreman.
     
  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Frazier at his best would whup the pair of them.
     
  15. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Frazier.
    He simply gets lower than both men in tight then breaks them down.