Joe Frazier vs Ron Lyle prime vs prime

Frazier breaks Lyle down in close. Lyle would be a danger because he can hit with the right hand but even if he were to stun and knock Frazier down, he wasn't truly a great finisher. He let Foreman pick himself off the canvas twice, only to come back to knock Lyle out. Quarry took it to Lyle, and Shavers nearly KO'd him with a left hook early.

Lyle had a habit of going to the ropes, played the counter puncher and let the other fighters punch themselves out. This would be a mistake against Frazier who wouldn't tire and who picked his punches well, more so than Foreman or Shavers who tried to KO Lyle with everything they had. Lyle was tough but he wouldn't last under the 15 round assault of Frazier's. Even if he does, he won't win on points like Bonavena couldn't in the rematch with Frazier.

I imagine it would be tough for Frazier to push Lyle around but he would get the better of it in the end although not before a very tough fight.

 

In Frazier's prime I think he wears Lyle down to a late stoppage or UD. However, post March 8th, 1971, I would give Lyle a decent chance of upsetting Frazier. Overall I think Frazier is a much better fighter than Lyle though. But styles make fights.

 

Well, some similarities have been made between Liston and Lyle and while Sonny could start fast and put up big early problems for Joe in the first few rounds, Lyle moved slower and often never found allot of fire in his bouts. I see Joe as just too much of a strong steam roller and Ron too slow to take many rounds in this one. Joe by late round tko or a clear u.d.

 

Lyle is nothing like Foreman imo.

Sure he drop George, but Lyle was in the Shavers or Norton level imo, He was not elite like Frazier. I think Frazier will stop Lyle late, perhaps one sided, the early rounds may be hard, but Lyle is no Foreman in this regard.

 

Foreman was more powerful, stronger, and as the fight with Lyle, shockling, and I am a big critic of Prime Foreman in this regard, has more gas in the tank.


I do not see Lyle, no matter how bigger he is than Frazier just bouncing him around like Foreman did, Foreman is in a whole other class.

 

Dangerous fight for Frazier, who in my opinion conveniently avoided / did not seek matches with big punchers his entire career outside of Foreman. Frazier never fought Shavers, Norton, Lyle, and Liston. But he did fight tons of smaller boxer types who could not punch hard, and picked two really suspect guys for title defenses.

If you are talking Frazier at his best from 1968 to 1971, I think he would likely TKO Lyle in the mid to late rounds. Lyle had some trouble with fast handed fighters, and did not have a good chin.

However Frazier would need to land his best first. I do not think he could take many of Lyle's right hands before going down, and in danger of a TKO loss. Lyle hit harder than Bonevvena, who Frazier himself said had him close to his first professional defeat.

I say 60/40 in favor of Frazier.

 

Frazier's hook bounced off Foreman's head, but Lyle Right hand hurt and floored Foreman. While I agree Foreman hit harder than Lyle, my point is Lyle might have hit harder than Frazier, and could certianly stun or floor Frazier as Bonevena did.

 

Isn't this all assuming that Lyle is likely to land cleanly? Ali managed to connect often on a prime Frazier, but I'm not sure if Lyle could. Also, while Lyle hit hard, he was not a monster hitter on a level with George Foreman, though of course neither was Bonavena.

I would make a prime Frazier a bit favourite over Lyle. In this case, it's not so much a question of who lands hardest, but who lands most often. I don't see Lyle staying away from Frazier or keeping him off with solid blows and I also don't see him lasting very long under Frazier's pressure.

I'd expect Frazier to finish Lyle off within five or six rounds. I'd make him an 80/20 favourite over Lyle.

 

Lyle would be dangerous for two or three rounds. After that,Joe would pile on the pressure and hurt Lyle on the inside. Frazier by tko in six or seven.

 

Buster Mathis, Quarry, and others landed cleanly on Frazier. Frazier, partly due to his style was there to be hit. Lyle, who had solid techniqe, could do the same.

I'll pick Frazier, but I'll make Lyle a very live underdog, and would expect him to win at least once if they fought three times, or if you prefer twice if they fought five times.

 

Some really good thoughts! When your talking small guys who couldn't punch hard are you including Jerry? Oscar must have caught Joe just right in their first bout as Quarry hit much harder then he and if you view the right hands on the button Jerry landed on Joe in their first go you know Joe could take a big punch. Ellis wasn't a big heavyweight puncher but he did take plenty out with his right hand, when he landed it on Joe's jaw though he didn't blink. One last comment, you included Norton in your list of big punchers Joe avoided, something Eddie Futch didn't consider Kenny.