Joe Frazier vs. the fighters from the 70's he never fought.

In his prime he beats them both.

 

I think Holmes would have had his hands full with Frazier. I used to think Holmes would just outbox and outpoint Frazier, but I'm not so sure. Frazier was awfully agressive and busy, and he'd be on Holmes' butt every minute. Holmes would definitely mark up Frazier's face and do damage with his left jab and uppercut, but I think Frazier could have taken Holmes' best punch. Holmes was the more skilled of the two, but I'm not sure how well Holmes would deal with Frazier's pressure. I have a feeling that, eventually, Holmes would wear down and wilt from Frazier's relentlessness. Holmes would be ahead on points by the halfway point in the fight, but from then on it's anybody's fight.

 

Holmes and Frazier are life or death one way or the other. That's the one single thing i am sure of.

 

I think he would probably have beaten all of them.

The ones where I am uncertain would likley have fought him not at their best.

 

I think Frazier's bodypunching and aggressiveness would carry him over Young. Futch and Durham would tell Joe to forget that Jimmy even had a head, and just pound away with the hook downstairs. If Young managed to stay on his feet and go the distance, he could well lose the most lopsided decision of his prime. (A decision Jimmy himself might not dispute.)

 

Has anybody seriously suggested that Larry could ever have anything other than a hectic experience with Joe?

Holmes wasn't known for his hook, and certainly wouldn't even consider hooking with this particular hooker. Nor was Larry dumb enough to try the sort of rope-a-doping tactics which Ali helped Frazier exploit. Holmes was an intelligent enough ring general to keep this in center court.

I too think that Joe could have withstood the best shot Holmes could offer, but I also believe that Larry wouldn't offer Joe the chance to land his best hooks upstairs. Holmes had sometimes crude but very effective footwork, as he displayed against Shavers. Larry did not move like Ali. In the first Shavers fight, Holmes continually circled rapidly to his right, away from Earnie's cross, and boxed very smoothly from his counterclockwise motion, an extremely unusual ablility for an orthodox boxer at the world class level. Of course he would not be foolish enough to circle into Joe's hook continually, unless to smother it. More likely, he'd control the ring as he did with Cobb, stepping back and to the left while catching Joe coming in, then tying Frazier up in close. I expect that Larry would do a much better job outmaneuvering Joe than Ali did. Holmes may not have been as athletically talented, as Muhammad, but Larry's smarts would make up for it.

Holmes would fade late, but Joe would face a huge deficit as he began to turn the tide, and run out of time before he caught up in the scoring.

Aside from the FOTC, Smoke only went the 15 round distance once. His rematch with Ringo in Philly was an expected grueling affair, and a very interesting study for anybody researching Joe's career. At the end, Frazier was actually tiring a bit, and while Bonavena was pooped-out as well, he managed to be coming on a bit at the end, while giving ground behind an effective jab (not the first thing one usually considers when picturing Ringo in action).

With Ali totally exiled, and thought by many to be through with boxing, Joe's return to his home town as champion against his toughest foe, who previously came within a single knockdown of wiping Smoke out in two rounds, was the most daunting challenge he could have possibly faced at that stage of his career. Yet, as thoroughly prepared, motivated and inspired to produce the most impressive performance Joe knew he needed to be capable of at that time, Bonavena still managed to demonstrate that the pre FOTC Frazier was not absolutely invincible, and could be competed with effectively in a war of attrition. In 25 rounds of action, he dropped Smoke twice without suffering a knockdown in return. The entirety of Frazier/Bonavena II is worthy of careful study for anyone who wants to know more about prime Smoke's abilities and limitations. (As is Joe's complete substantial body of work pre FOTC.)

 

Frazier knocks out all but Holmes, who beats him in a very close D.
Norton could not fight backing up, Joe would wear him down and stop him. same for Lyle, who had a tendicy to tire late. Shavers? have you all forgot that an old Jerry Quarry knocked out Shavers in the first 1st? A bomb throwing contest for 1 rd. and unless Ernie gets very very lucky he gets ko'ed by Frazier.

 

Pre-Thrilla 'N" Manila Frazier beats Holmes by a UD, otherwise Larry wins a lopsided decision.Frazier would have Norton out of there by the fifth round.He would kayo Lyle in eight and Shavers in four.Mac Foster, after a couple of hell-raising rounds, would lose in three.Young would get stopped in eleven.