Yeah, the story is legendary, but as you said, sparring isn't a real fight and Wlad was 40 at that time.
Have you ever seen Usyk go 15 ? I totally respect the man but if we assume whatever he does Frazier has the same access to to go from 200 to 220 , and there is suspicion , Joe is a very different match up .. Much faster that Chisora, a harder hitter with far superior punch output and stamina he is exactly the worse match up for an Usyk that we all know does not like it to the body ... Frazier lives pummeling to the body ... a hell of a match up.
Good question, Swag. It's very different to Wlad vs Usyk, in the sense that whilst all 3 were (or in the case of Fury, could be, at least before his 3-year hiatus) excellent at distance control, but where as Wlad is taller and ranger than Usyk, the opposite is true relative to Fury. If forced to guess, I think the Fury from the Wlad fight beats the best Wlad narrowly on points on a fair scorecard in a stinker, but if they rematch, Wlad realises his advantage is in power and fights more aggressively, either stopping Fury or forcing him into a defensive posture enough to take a tight decision. I think the best Wlad beats the heavier, slower, more static Fury from the Wilder rematches. The extra bulk helped Fury push Wilder back, it wouldn't help him outbox Wlad at range, nor would it make him even as close to as powerful as Wlad I would not have substantial confidence in any of the above guesses.
Thanks, I was just wondering if you think, this was a rock-paper scissors situation with it appears you do. Fury is hard to gauge because imo the pre-exile version of him would fair better against certain opponents, but the post-exile version of him would fair better against others. I know melankamos stated he'd favor Foreman over post-exile Fury but not pre-exile Fury, while it was the other way around for Frazier. He'd favor Frazier over pre-exile Fury but not post-exile. While, I'm not sure I agree, he makes an excellent case. How do you think a pre-exile Fury handles Usyk? On first glance, I think that version would have the best chance but now I'm not so sure. I'll have to ponder a bit.
It is a hell of a matchup. Regarding punch output, would it surprise you that Chisora threw 625 punches against Usyk (52 punches per round), and FOTC Frazier threw 674 (45 punches per round)? The punch stats are both available to be referenced. Joe did have a higher percentage of power punches in that, but Chisora's work rate for a guy 50 pounds heavier than Joe has been taken for granted, by and large. Not calling you out specifically in this reply, rather that I've seen it brought up ad nauseum any time this fantasy matchup comes up. It's not a given for me that taking Chisora's output and assuming Joe would automatically throw much, much more is appropriate given we have some verifiable data points on it.
Whilst a couple of years younger than Usyk, Fury has obviously displayed nothing like the same discipline. Whilst both may have been removed from their respective and absolute apex, by the time of their fights, Fury was further removed from his, by my eye. Even during their first fight, Fury was utilising his height and reach advantages and was beginning to pick Usyk off at range around the 5th and 6th rounds. I thought Fury had things sewn up by that point. I mean, when getting outboxed at range, what were Usyk's options? He couldn't walk through Fury's shots and outmuscle him on the inside, pushing Tyson back. As it transpired, Fury's stamina let him down, allowing Usyk to take charge and win a deserved decision. Again, just a guess, I suspect that the lighter, prime Fury from the Wlad fight, would also be able to outbox Usyk at range by utilising those huge advantages in height and reach, and whilst even that version couldn't match Usyk for stamina, my guess is that he'd stay in the ascendancy just long enough to nick a tight decision, in a boring fight.
Remember that Usyk wasn't at his best against Fury either. If we really want do prime for prime comparisons, you need to take Usyk from Joshua I fight, where he was noticebly quicker on his feet, which may help him with closing the distance.
I thought Fury had him as well tbh. Until Usyk turned things around with that KD. Fury was also having great success with the uppercut iirc, until he inexplicably stopped using it. You may very well be right that a lighter Fury from the Wlad outboxes Usyk. I'd also tentatively pick Fury from the 2nd Wilder fight to pick up where left off against Usyk, not allowing Usyk to turn the tide.
No worries, mate. I agree btw, if I had to narrow HW Usyk down to a peak version, it would be the AJ fights, too. He'd filled out a bit and seemed more accustomed to the extra weight than he did vs Witherspoon and Chisora, whilst was a little lighter on his feet than vs Dubois and Fury.
Frazier has a tough style for Usyk which allows him to make a fight of it. But Usyk will put a major hurt on him and have him down more then once which will negate Joes stamina advantage he had with everyone he fought. Usyk has too many modern advantages in training that make him too strong too conditioned and too technically skilled.