More revisionist ****. It was WIDELY understood that Joe would not start "smoking" until 4-5 rounds of fighting. Joe stated himself he was slow getting going off the blocks. Having early kos vs low level opposition does not mean Joe was not a slow starter. Another case of a poster looking at paper records and thinking he knows the whole story. Can't be done. Listening to the people who lived through that period is the only way to truly understand events and fighters throughout boxing history. In the case of Frazier he absolutely was a slow starter.
Fraziers slow starts were noted relative to the way he fought a few rounds later. Compared to most fighters, most good fighters, he started at a pretty decent pace.
I wouldn't consider Machen to be low level opposition, and Joe knocked him through the ropes in the opening round. Another referee might have ruled an opening KD in his favor against Ramos as Mercante, Sr. was moving in to do. Statistically, Frazier is comparable to Liston so far as the speed of his starts is concerned. (Both have five opening round stoppages on their dossiers, by the way, and Smoke probably could have spared Bob Foster the beating he later took from Ali by wiping him out at the opening bell the way he had Ziggy.) Virtually nobody is optimal in the opening round among world class competitors, but Jerry Quarry tried to catch him cold in their first bout, and paid for it by gassing quickly. Joe was no Duane Bobick (who John Tate did wipe out in the opening round by design).
Pure ****. Do not try to tell those that lived through that time what you believe is factual by looking up old records. It's Was very well known that Joe was a slow starter. This is why Ali, Foreman and many who fought him jumped on him early. Don't believe me then believe Joe himself as he termed himself a slow starter. Next thing you will try telling everyone Frazier had a decent right hand.
Chuvalo has said that about Frazier's right, and it did produce the fight ending rip in Jerry Quarry's face during their rematch, just as C00ney's right did to Jimmy Young.
All I know is Frazier set a pace he could maintain throughout the whole fight. He chopped away and kept it up all night. If anyone outworked him in the first round it usually took more out of them than Frazier. If that made Frazier a slow starter so be it. But it worked for him. A fighter could be three rounds weaker from winning the first round from Frazier. He usually forced more out of a fighter than they were prepared to use all in one go. Busting a gut just to stay with him. Even without punching, Fraziers movement and pressure was a nonstop rhythm that forced a reaction. Losing a round but winning the fight. A classic example is the Ellis fight. Jimmy threw the kitchen sink at Frazier, the bathroom sink at Frazier and the damn chamber pot too just to keep Joe off him in the first round. It nearly killed Ellis winning that round from Frazier. He punched more often the closer Joe got. He punched to find room. He punched for dear life. But he may as well fought four rounds. It Cost Ellis. The next round Joe come at him again, and the next, and all the time Ellis fades and Joe's still smoking at the same pace. Chopping away.
I liked hearing the story about Jimmy threatening him that if he him low that Jimmy would "take him out". Perhaps someone should have reminded Ellis to take him out regardless.
Yes, that's right. Jimmy needed it regardless. He soon found that out! and he was trying as soon as the fight started, he wasn't waiting to be hit low. Frazier really was something back then.
Frazier developed a better right hand very late in his career. It was still at best a C level punch. Again this was very well understood in those days. New info for the guys who can only go back and look at records.
Let's make a list of fighters Joe KOed with his right hand. Ok....now that this list is done let's make a list of those he knocked down with his right hand.
The fact that Joe continued to use the hook as the coup de grace should not diminish it as a useful weapon. It created opportunities for the left hook.
He could throw it to the body since it took much less coordination. You don't see him using it effectively in combination to the head. Again how many fighters did he ever ko with his right? How many did he ever knockdown with his right? I am sure early on there may be some but I've not found any.
