Joe frazier was better than marciano in everything

Guys, this is hegrant...yet again. Everyone just quit posting, he's wasting Classics time with his usual Marciano baiting.

Remember how he had the same problem using the quote function. :good

Lock the thread.

 

For what it's worth

Ali always said, from his late career till present day, that Marciano and Johnson would have given him the toughest fights.

Ali didn't even consider that, ever, until he sparred with Rocky a few rounds for the cameras and that simulation fight between them. Ali said his arms were hurting from the punches Rocky was throwing at Ali's guard. They weren't even going that hard at all.


Hey combat, do you think Frazier in 71 defeats a prime Ali in 66?
I personally think Ali would defeat him with no problem.

I think, however, that a 66 Ali vs prime Marciano would be a close fight.
And I think a prime Rocky defeats a 71 Ali worse than Frazier did.

This is all just speculation obviously, but some people tend to forget that when Frazier beat Ali, Frazier was at his best, and Ali wasn't.

Ali could have retired when being exiled from the sport, and would have still had one of the greatest careers in boxing history. But he came back and fought a prime Frazier.

I'm only saying this because people rate Frazier very high because of his fight where he defeated Ali, but what if they hypothetically fought prime v prime in their career, would anybody even have Frazier on their top 10 list?

His win against Ali is so monumental and so powerful when defining his career, yet Ali wasn't prime anymore. I think 65 Liston would have crushed 71 Ali.

Marciano had to fight Walcott twice, Charles twice, Moore, and all of those fights, especially Moore, the fighters were in great shape in their careers.

 

dk

 

trust me, nobody thinks 71 Ali is ****. In fact


Take either
Ali from 60-67
or
Ali from 71-81

You can take either portion of his career, throw the other half out the window, and your still looking at the greatest fighter in history.


But the only way a 71 Ali defeats a 65 Liston is with a miracle similar to Zaire.

In their first fight, Liston was missing Ali by millimeters. He connected rarely in that fight, but every time he got a good shot in, it became awfully dangerous for Ali.

Ali didnt defeat Liston because he was standing up to him. He defeated him by staying away, not getting hit, and throwing punches when he saw a clear opening. He was extremely careful not to stand in front of Liston and his punches. What he did against Foreman, he would never be able to do against Liston.

And people think that the Ali Liston fight was a massacre are only true when looking at it on paper. But Liston came less than inches away from a knockout punch on many occasions in that fight. And like Cus observed, while watching Ali spar during his 71 comeback, Ali had to take an extra step to move away, whereas in his prime he could move away with ease and less time. The only time Ali stood up to Liston was during the clinch, and never more.


Trust me, I am the biggest Ali fan on this forum, but if on that night, it was 65 Liston in that ring instead of Frazier, Ali would have got beaten worse. I really wouldnt be surprised if Ali would say the same in context to this conversation

 

also, in response to your first blue response

Frazier's style would never allow him to make it a close fight against a 66 Ali. He simply wasnt mobile enough with the bob and weave style. Ali would be able to move in and out with ease. You cant do that with Liston though, because Liston is very mobile. He'll chase you across the ring to land one jab. Very different ball game.