Joe Frazier...who could have outpointed him?

Rocky Marciano's punch volume may just get the job done, though with the amount of shoulder and arm punching, Frazier could take the points as well

No way Lewis or Klitschko can outbox him if Ali couldn't, though I see Lewis being able to KO him

Prime Ali might

 

Lewis would knock him sparko.
Who would outpoint him? Not too many.

 

Tokyo Douglas is a good shout!

 

I just said that Marciano and Prime Ali MAY be able to beat him on points

Though the chance of a TKO on cuts from Ali and a KO from Marciano is much more likely

 

I don´t see 66Ali TKOing a pime Frazier. Just can´t see it. Joe would just hit Ali ALOT less than in FOTC, Frazier would start landing something later in the fight. UD Ali.

Rocky?
That might be a good fight for some time, but I don´t see Rocky braking down the stronger Frazier. Rocky liked some distance with the opponent on the backfoot, leaned back into a defensive crouch and attacked from there. That won´t happen against Frazier, who directly rushes into Rocky making it an awful tiring infight. Frazier will end on top of this game, is 15-20lb stronger too:

Frazier stops him or UD.

 

The poundage doesn't mean anything when Marciano still hits harder than frazier. Besides, by Ali, Foreman, and Frazier's admittance, Marciano would beat Frazier

Frazier didn't like someone who fought head to head as well. The difference is that Marciano has more power, a better chin, better defense, a bigger arsenal of punches, and more stamina (though debatable)

Marciano KO's Frazier in a thrilling war IMO

 

Imo Ali would probably tko him, he did that a lot, was far faster in his prime than in his fights with Frazier. I can see Ali doing that but if Frazier managed to hold on then yeah UD.

Marciano would definitely KO Frazier. Marciano was much stronger than Frazier and had a much better chin. If Prime Ali said he wasn't sure he could beat Marciano, but a prime Ali>Frazier, well I don't like ABC logic, but Frazier and Marciano are similar fighters, but Marciano is much better in his chin and power.

 

Judging from footage of Frazier fooling around as an old man -- which is the only accurate way to rate heavyweights -- a modern amateur would beat him.

 

The poundage means something! Its called weight class in boxing, you might have heard about it. Particularly if you have two attrition punchers coming at each other with nobody taking a step back, including tons on clinching an wrestling (strength).

Didn´t you post Marciano hit harder and have better chin than Tyson too?

What prooves Marciano having better chin than Frazier? Getting tagged one time by a 190er and going down?

Hit harder? Maybe with the right hand, but the left? What young short stocky and strong fighters can Rocky attest on his resume? Frazier: Bonavena 2x, Quarry 2x, Chuvalo.

 

I'd go with 67' 68' version of Ali, when he was at his very best. Prime Holmes had the jab and right hand to keep Frazier at bay, plus could go a hard 15rd fight. Also Holmes biggest weakness, wasnt a Frazier strength and that was his susceptible to a hooking right hand from the orthodox fighting stance. L.Lewis, I could see doing it also, esp if fight was only a 12rdfight. He was like Holmes with his weakness coming from right hand power punches, again not a Frazier strength. Those are the 3 that comes to mind. But prime Frazier's work rate in the ring would be hard for most to match if they couldn't stop him. He'd grind down the majority of heavyweight champs if they didn't knock him out.

 

Walcott is better than Bonavena, Quarry and Chuvalo lol, so was Charles. Walcott didnt even manage to phase rocky, he wasnt hurt despite walcott beating him for 13 rounds and being dubbed "the hardest puncher i ever fought" by rocky.

Irrelevant for the Tyson thing.

Size gives diminishing returns for power after 180 lbs, this is what allows genetic freaks like Dempsey, Louis and Marciano to hit harder than guys like Klitschko, Fury, Carnera, and Terrell

Look at guys like Julian Jackson and Earnie Shavers

 

Seriously I said no one, and I do think he would be particularly hard to outpoint. Some of that is because his chin has a bad rep so many guys are seen as stopping him which leaves those who could not stop him as the viable picks.

As with any fighter I think thier are styles and opponents to trouble ALL of them including *gasp* PEAK Ali and SRR.

As a biased Frazier guy I obviously find him greater than many/most do...and since I believe he beat the best Ali IMO I don’t see pre exile Ali beating him.

I think Holyfield, Marciano & Louis are close to even fights

I think Bowe & Holmes have a solid chance

I think Lennox would be an interesting choice.

I think Foreman and Liston stop Frazier long before it matters on a card.

I also think Frazier would be a tough test for just about everyone else, and very tough to outpoint if you didn’t stop him or he didn’t stop you.

 

Fraziers hand and foot speed is the difference vs Marciano not to mention his work rate.
Frazier is a step ahead of Marciano all night long. Frazier stops him late.

 

Better? On what ground you wanna loose is this? Frazier beat 29 years old Ali. But this is Kindergarden.
Its about:
"Which strong stocky fighters, who didn´t run on the backfoot and fought like they did Joe Frazier, toe to toe, did Rocky face?" Skinny lanky Charles? A mover like Walcott who started at 160 too? There´s the answer: None.

Ahhh now I remember, Marcianista brain virus. Couldn´t the doc do anything ?


For everybody else reading this, without beeing immune to common sense:

Biomechanics of the head for Olympic boxer punches to the face

Abstract
Objective: The biomechanics of the head for punches to the jaw and the risk of head injury from translational and rotational acceleration were studied.

Methods: Seven Olympic boxers from five weight classes delivered 18 straight punches to the frangible face of the Hybrid III dummy. Translational and rotational head acceleration, neck responses, and jaw pressure distribution were measured. High speed video recorded each blow and was used to determine punch velocity. Equilibrium was used to determine punch force, energy transfer, and power.

Results: Punch force averaged 3427 (standard deviation (SD) 811) N, hand velocity 9.14 (SD 2.06) m/s, and effective punch mass 2.9 (SD 2.0) kg. Punch force was higher for the heavier weight classes, due primarily to a higher effective mass of the punch. Jaw load was 876 (SD 288) N. The peak translational acceleration was 58 (SD 13) g, rotational acceleration was 6343 (SD 1789) rad/s2, and neck shear was 994 (SD 318) N.

Conclusions: Olympic boxers deliver straight punches with high impact velocity and energy transfer. The severity of the punch increases with weight class.

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/39/10/710

Which(of course) is the same result as in other studys.

 

Good post my man. The underrated Bowe is an interesting call as hes such a great in fighter. The best super heavy in fighter there was in my book.
Frazier most likely grinds him down I feel. Holy is made to order for Joe. He goes the way Quarry did. The warrior in Holy gets the best of him here.
Ike was mentioned a few times. Totally unproven to me. Fought Tua to what i had a draw. That doesn't cut it with me. Tunney? Frazier gets him under 10.
I give Holmes the best shot. That's about it.