Joe Frazier ,Wins The F.O.T.C, how did it decline from there ?

When Frazier fought Foreman he was the same age as Ali had been when he came back to fight him 29.

 

Frazier was back down to his best fighting weight of 208-209 lbs for 12 rd fights against Joe Bugner and Ali#2.
Some suggest replacing Ali#2 fight referee Tony Perez with Ali#1 fight referee Arthur Mercante, could have made
a difference in Fight #2 (Super Fight #2).

"Throughout the bout, Frazier complained to Tony Perez that Ali was holding too much. His trainer, Eddie Futch, told Perez, "You gotta stop this!"

"The only violation," Perez said after the bout, "is if you held and hit at the same time. Ali was holding, but he wasn't hitting."

Futch reviewed the film and said Ali had held Frazier 133 times during the fight.

 

So you are saying that Frazier has no excuse for losing to Foreman at 29 even though Ali was also 29 when he lost to Frazier?

The difference was that when Frazier met his first loss he had previously been in a bout that had been considered “career ending” even before meeting Foreman. There were legit fears over Fraziers health. In order to continue with his career sensible steps were made to gently ease the champion toward world level and Foreman was really his next serious opponent.

There had been no fears of Ali’s health or gentle steps prior to him facing Frazier. Muhammad had just beat both Quarry and Bonavena easier than Frazier had. Two serious opponents.

 

Frazier got some good rounds in for that fight. He certainly got one eye closed up pretty good. I don’t think anybody has ever said that Frazier looked as good against Bugner as he had prior to the first Ali fight.

yes I understand this suggestion but just as many can suggest that perhaps Arthur Mercante would not have taken Frazier to the corner when the bell had not rung and at a crucial moment too. Some even suggest it saved Frazier from being stopped on his feet. We never got to find out.

Did Eddie Futch ever complain about Tony Perez saving Frazier at that moment from a potentially sticky situation? I imagine Futch could have piped up about it if it was Ali getting a break like that.

 

The Bugner fight came after the Daniels, Stander, Foreman (debacle) fights....and pre-Superfight 2.
Good Frazier v Joe Bugner fight coverage at this link.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AJ&pg=1760,353298&dq=joe+frazier+bugner&hl=en

 

That’s a good write up. Although Foreman was quoted as saying he thought Bugner won. Like I said before, there’s nothing to suggest Frazier was back to what he had been before meeting Ali.

 

It was considered career ending ?Who was favourite for the fight Frazier of Foreman?

Frazier was made a 3½ to 1 favorite by Las Vegas odds makers

Sensible steps ? As in not defending against a ranked contender for 2 years? The difference was Ali had 18 rds of ring activity in 4 years when he fought Frazier.

 

It wasn't well documented at all. It was well rumored. The rumors were absolute bollocks and proven to be so.

 

Overstated and exaggerated imo.
He lost to Foreman because he hadn't trained like he should have ,had fed on 2 patsies in the last 2 years and, most importantly because Foreman was an absolute stylistic nightmare for him and would have done the same thing to him at any stage of his career. " I never had any trouble with short guys, I'd beat Joe 100 times out of a 100.
Ali did, Frazier would always give him problems." recent quote from Foreman in the Ring.

 

The thread was concocted to always end up here.

 

Yup the "Smokistas" would have you believe Joe was nearly blind and at death's door.He must have had the shortest prime of any Champion!lol

 

He would have dusted Foreman at his best!

 

We agree to differ. I don't think he would have beaten prime Ali either.