Joe Frazier would have whupped Sonny Liston

This fight is a match that styles will determine, no shorter smaller man is going to wade in on Sonny Liston throwing hooks. I do think Frazier go's more than 2 rounds with Liston.....about 4 before the ref rescues Frazier after some brutal knock downs.

 

It's a 50/50 fight, but Sonny isn't Foreman, he's slower and would try to box more than just to slug which would allow Frazier to get inside.
Foreman was taller and bigger guy than Liston, plus he was agressive and good at pushing people around, stronger guy with bigger hands and better chin too.

Only thing Liston has better than Foreman is better stamina and polished skills.

Liston would box Frazier like a boxer puncher unlike Foreman who just outpowered him...if Frazier past 5,6 rounds there's no chance for Liston winning late not even dec.

 

So a past prime Liston would be evenly matched with FOTC Frazier but it's also a toss up with a prime Liston?

Also, the weaknesses you listed for Liston are non-sense, particularly stamina and susceptibility to pressue.

Liston went 12 with Machen, maintaining an excellent output so his stamina is definitely proven.

As for weaker mental resilience, he took bombs from Williams, suffered a broken jaw, and was nearly knocked out by his own admission, and came back to KO Williams.

Don't even know where you got "susceptibility to opponent's pressure".

 

You’re right that the fight with Machen shows Liston’s stamina, but that was in 1960, and in his later years, like in the fight against Martin (1969), his pace noticeably dropped in tougher moments. Regarding mental resilience, I acknowledge his grit in the fights with Williams, but his losses to Ali and the attempted blinding of Ali (which is clearly a result of frustration) suggest issues with handling psychological pressure. "Susceptibility to pressure" Hmm, I admit I wasn’t precise. I meant difficulties against opponents who imposed their pace (if Frazier could do this against an older Liston). A fight with 1965–1970 Liston would likely be evenly matched, but against prime Liston, I’ll clarify my stance and favor Sonny. I pretty sure that you know much more about boxing than I do, so I'm open to any criticism.

 

I think a fight between FOTC Frazier and Patterson I Liston would be especially great if it made it into the late rounds.

 

Frazier allowed Foreman to push him...if that was Marciano, every time Foreman tries to push him he would get punched in arms,belly,ribs plus he would get right hand.
Frazier lacked right hand and that is why Foreman beat him.

 

In the realistic timeline, I suspect that you are rights.

Prime for prime it is a different matter.

 

LOL your insane bro.

 

Liston had the strength to push off Frazier as Foreman did - but that wasn’t Sonny’s game, he was in fact a very clean fighter, accented on pure boxing and punching.

The phone pole jab is the thing that would primarily keep Joe at bay.

Anytime that failed, Liston actually had a good inside game also to fall back on and deal with matters - well capable of short power punching in close…and Liston also knew how to land a devastating uppercut…

If you wanna win some money, then bet on Sonny….

 

Love the reference man.

 

Liston has other options here to keep Frazier at bay. His jab would be instrumental in achieving that goal. He also had an excellent inside game (as Pug alluded to) despite his extremely long reach.

He also had that infamous jab, uppercut combo that was kryptonite to those with a bob and weave defense, as he demonstrated against Patterson. Foreman used the exact method to great effect against Frazier.

Serious question, how much of Sonny have you seen besides the Ali fights?

 

I honor and respect Joe Frazier. But a fight between Frazier at his best and Sonny Liston at his best would not have been pretty. The jab/uppercut combo Swag mentioned might literally have lifted Joe two feet off the canvas.

 

There's a reason Yank and the management team didn't want the Liston fight even in the late 60s, too much risk for little reward.

 

I'm not since Foreman was better in everything including cutting the ring, infighting, chin, heart...Liston only had more accurate punches and better stamina and that's it.