Joe Frazier's Record

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SwarmingSlugger, Aug 12, 2021.

  1. JWSoats

    JWSoats Active Member Full Member

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    You are absolutely correct. I used that wording in my post because many still looked to Ali as the true heavyweight champion who had never lost his title in the ring. But yes, Joe had won universal undisputed recognition by all governing boxing bodies with his victory over WBA Champion Jimmy Ellis on Feb. 16, 1970. Ring Magazine, which had continued to recognize Ali as champion finally withdrew recognition just before the Frazier-Ellis fight, citing that Ali had called them, announcing his retirement. Ring said they took Ali at his word, as he had made similar announcements at that time, especially leading up to the showing of the Marciano-Ali computer fight, saying 'come see me for the last time in the ring.' Ring Magazine recognized the Frazier-Ellis winner as the new champion.
     
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  2. JWSoats

    JWSoats Active Member Full Member

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    Yes, it would have been a high risk - low reward type of fight for Joe at that time. It would have been an interesting match, though.
     
  3. DJN16

    DJN16 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Frazier was an exceptional relentless fighter, just look at him fighting, the way he grinded guys down. Judging records can at times get over analysed. Same applies to Duran.
     
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  4. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Agreed.
     
  5. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That was right before Joe Frazier paid a visit to the White House to ask then President Nixon to reinstate Muhammad Ali's boxing license as his case was pending in The U.S Supreme Court, Draft Evasion back then was a Felony.
     
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  6. HolDat

    HolDat Active Member Full Member

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    Similar to SRL. Quality over quantity isn't a bad thing.
     
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  7. SwarmingSlugger

    SwarmingSlugger Member Full Member

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    The context of a fighterś record matters, and Joe definitely fought quality opponents.
     
  8. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    I was at a place down in San Antonio. My family didn't have enough room at our table. Joe invited us to his table. My brother Samson was eating biscuits and our mother asked him to pass one of them while he was just going crazy on 'em, eating like a hog in slop. "Just order more, mama, dang-on." Samson said. I was just about to say something like "Hey, man." and that's when Joe reached across the table and pulled a biscuit directly out of Samson's mouth and then the other arm came out, his left arm, which meant business. His right arm...also meant business. But his left arm? Super business. Left hand come out, he grab Samson's ear lobe and pinched it in his fingernails like some kind of crazy psycho killer tryna speak French or something. "Yeoooooweeeeowwwwah!" Samson said, reluctantly. But loudly.

    Then come the right hand with the biscuit in it. He shoved my brother's own biscuit up his left nostril while pinning him to the table by the earlobe pinch. I mean, this was like some Vulcan ish. "These biscuits are for the table, son. The table is for gentlemen who respect their mamas and papas. You get that?" Joe asked, meritoriously. "Snerkmabourgpompfa!" my brother said, audibly. "You want a whole bowl full of biscuits while your mama ain't getting any like a scamboogah? Huh? You can have 'em all, in ya nostrils, in ya ears..." and then he took another biscuit, one of his own, and he started shoving it in Samson's dadgum ear hole. Mama's eyes shown with respect, appreciation, admiration...and pride. Samson was half daddy, after all. And her pride was in being the kinda woman a real man (unlike my brother) would try to protect. Not in helping to raise this ragamuffin. Samson had to see an audiologist and something called a rhinologist after that. It got ugly, I'm not gonna lie. It got worse than I am even describing. But after things calmed down, Joe ordered my mama a whole thing like a bowl full of her own biscuits and told her those weren't for the table, but just for her.

    Then he looked at me, scowling, and said "You a big boy, you keep your brother on a leash, ya hear now?" And I peed a little, furtively. But I nodded and he said "Boy, I can't hear your head rattle." and I said "Yes, sir, Mr. Frazier, sir." and he mumbled "Wanna sit at my table better keep your dogs on a leash, fool. If they're rabid." I thought about asking him why anyone would bring a rabid dog to a restaurant or think it would be appropriate if they just leashed 'im but then I focused on the warmth which was rapidly cooling in my pants and I stopped and I didn't say anything. Then, an idea occurred to me, to get back in his good graces. "Mama, you can have some of my biscuits if you wa-" I was saying when Frazier smacked me across my mouth so hard I saw stars. "You're tryin' daddy's patience." Selita Ebanks said, glaringly. "I-" I began, but I stopped. My eyes were teary, my pants were wet, and my mama was eating the biscuits girlishly. She'd finally had a real man in the family, and he wasn't even blood. I had nothing left to say. Samson had been in the bathroom during this portion of the evening, trying to vomit the biscuits that Joe had forced up through his nose holes and swallowed downwards into his stomach. He didn't feel very well for several weeks. I still feel weird and small and stupid. But it was the best day. As long as mama was happy.
     
  9. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You are one wonderfully weird, highly creative dude.
    Only thing is Frazier was no bully, he protected people from them, he left the south when defending someone from a bully who was a white man, & his family knew he better go out of town.
    And he was great to Ali during the exile, giving him money, trying to get his boxing license reinstated, & rightly felt betrayed by Ali's cruelty.
     
  10. Rollin

    Rollin New Member Full Member

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    Hard to blame him. His fighting style had extremely short shelf life and he was fighting in one of the most competitive eras in the history of the sport. Fight of the Century and Thrilla in Manilla also took a lot out of him an Ali.

    George on the other hand was a knockout artist who through his first 39 bouts went the distance only three times. The rest of the wins were through knockout and most of them within first four or five rounds.

    Some figures to compare Frazier's and Foreman's road to the title: Frazier's first fight with Ellis was his 25th win. Frazier-Ali was his 27th (lineal championship), and before becoming a title holder he had wins against Oscar Bonavena x2, Eddie Machen, Jerry Quarry, George Chuvalo and Buster Mathis.
    Foreman's first fight with Frazier was his 38th fight. Prior to that he had three or four wins names that are worth mentioning: Gregorio Peralta x2, George Chuvalo, Wepner, and Boone Kirkman. The rest were palookas as he was learning on the job. Generally speaking, Frazier went through a harder opposition to get to the title.

    Joe Frazier ended his career with his 37th fight. George ended his first career with his 47th fight, but George was barely twenty eight years old and had an entire prime still in front of him. That being said, Frazier by that time has been in a ring war with Ali three times, fought George twice, and had to go the distance quite a few more times, even if he was dominating the fight. George was in a tasking fight with Young, but it was damaging mainly because of the heat and humidity, and with Ali, once against because of the heat. No other fight, barring the Lyle slugfest, came close to the level of mental and physical corrosion the Ali-Frazier trilogy did.

    The tragic truth, however, is that Joe Frazier was gone after 1971, along with his burning desire and a good chunk of health.
     
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  11. red corner

    red corner Active Member Full Member

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    Neither would I. Frazier's speciality was fighting boxers who were usually non puncher's and he didn't have a lot of fights. In that sense he had the perfect style to defeat his opponents. How manny raked opponents did he beat that were ranked when he fought them?

    The best scoring for the first fight with Oscar on the ten point must system is a draw, but the did not use the 10 point must scoring for that fight.
     
  12. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This is it, Joe's style took a heavy toll even in wins
     
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  13. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Simply put he didn’t have to. He was in a good situation where he was ready to compete so he did. Ali was excited they saw an opening and they went for it. Once you’ve won the title and are rich most guys don’t feel the need to keep fighting intense schedules. It’s a shame he couldn’t manage his money better.
    I also think him missing Patterson and Liston hurts him. Had he beat one or both even if they weren’t prime you’d have to give him an edge over others who beat the previous generations best.
     
  14. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Endowed, I don't think your reading comprehension is as good as the brain using it. In this story, which was featured on Beyond Belief: Fact or Fiction, with Jonathan Frakes and deemed true, it is my brother who is the bully. Frazier was the hero. Have you become so blinded by SJW nonsense that you think Frazier is the bully in the story? Why, he is simply the only man in it!
     
  15. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Oh right, my bad, your "Frazier" was not excessive at all when folks reached too quickly to bogart a ladieieies biscuit by somehow shoving them up whole up various tiny orifices.

    Now I am "Endowed", well thanks but I was alluding to being endowed with the Tao, not indulging a crass anatomical claim.