Joe Gans took a dive against Terry Mcgovern

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Apr 2, 2009.

  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    That is my opinion due to facts. What's yours?
     
  2. bladerunner

    bladerunner El Intocable Full Member

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    nobody can know for sure,but if he took a dive why did he kept getting up from all the knockdowns?
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The strongest you can ever put it in a case like this is to say that "there is a substantial amount of circumstantial evidence that a dive took place".

    The fighters involved usualy take the truth of the matter to their graves.

    So, "There is a substantial amount of circumstantial evidence that a dive took place"
     
  4. ray fredrickson

    ray fredrickson Member Full Member

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    I wish I knew how to post,I have a 1950sRING,article RING DECETIVE by Great Dan Daniel. The answer was yes!!!! Joe needed money,was sick,Terrible Terry was unbeatable. The FIX killed fight game in CHICAGO FOR YEARS.tHEY HAVE PIX OF FIGHT. TO bad we dont have accurate fims back then. Was Terry that good???
     
  5. MrMarvel

    MrMarvel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    That's the question I have. When Johnson laid down, he laid down. Did Gans thinking flopping around the ring would make it look more convincing? If so, I think he was on to something.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I believe it was a fix, proving it is something else.
     
  7. MrMarvel

    MrMarvel Well-Known Member Full Member

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  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I think the fight was on the level. We are lucky to have clear and up close film. The first knockdown is the key. McGovern lands a looping hook to the ear of Gans, then Gans’ keens buckle, and he falls. This looks like a natural fall. Gans gets up his equilibrium is off, and tries to fight back, but McGovern was a bantamweight version Joe Frazier with power in both hands. Some of the knockdowns there after are good shots. If it were a fix, Gans could have simply taken the count on some of those knockdowns. The ref ( Siler who loved Gans ) escorted a woozy Joe Gans to his corner after round one. This is a no-no, then the same ref who was fond of Gans the fighter says the fix was in the next day.
     
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    If you do think that the fight was on the level then it was (for McGovern) one of, if not the greatest pound for pound wins of all time.
     
  10. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    I have a mint copy of this fight in its entirety and its so fake its ridiculous. Gans goes down the first time from a punch that doesnt land, it loops behind his head. I did a frame by frame study of the film for J. J. Johnson's book on Chicago Boxing and several of the frames were printed in the book to illustrate how ridiculous it was. There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever in my mind that this fight was thrown by Gans.
     
  11. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Of course it was thrown. Gans was not simply a much bigger man but a far better pound for pound fighter ... like many great fighters in his day he carried opponents and threw a few. He was known for it ... read the post fight coverage from the day ... the writers crucified Gans for throwing it ...
     
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I think McGovern lands some good shots long before the knockdown happens. Keep in mind, McGovern was the classic two fisted attacking swarmer, vs a boxer puncher type. The style advantage here is McGoverns.

    I know a thing or two about film, and going on frames of a 100+ year old film to prove anything is very dicey. The film was likely shot at 16 to 24 frames per second. Do you have all frames crystal clear and with none of them showing the punch landing?

    Also, what do you think of my point with McGovern landing near the ear region causing Gans to lose his balance?
     
  13. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You ever watch thsos 1920's football games with Red Grange??

    Evey time some one kick the ball, it disspares? Never seen in the air until some one catchs it? or not catch it.

    I belive the frame were Johnson kos Ketchal is missing on the film. It was hand crank, so there is bound to be missing frames I belive.
     
  14. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Why, exactly?
     
  15. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    You can believe what you want but that fight was a monumental fix that resulted in boxing being KILLED in Chicago for twenty years. The film clearly shows Gans going down from punches that dont land. Gans! A guy who could take the best punches of men much larger and harder hitting than McGovern. Its not like Chicago just up and decided that the fight was fishy and banned boxing, EVERYONE knew it was a fix, it was the worst kept secret. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck its a duck and this fight was the biggest damn duck in boxing history for years before and years after.