Joe Jeannette on Langford and Johnson

Far from, "chickening out", I think it shows serious balls, for a black man to walk into the Champion's saloon and challenge him to a title fight .
Now, who refused that one ?

 

I read it some time ago, I beleive one of his working female friends was called May Sutton,personally I have no interest in a boxer's sex life or whether he pays for his fun,what interested me was the double standards applied in this case.
I wouldn't think any less of Langford as a fighter, if he slept with a 1000 hookers ,male or female.

 

Im aware of when the Mann act was passed .


It was brought in to combat white slavery

It has never been illegal to consort with prostitutes, indeed many prize fighters ,because of the transient nature of their profession did so.
Morally reprehensible perhaps, illegal no.

Johnson was charged with transporting Lucille Cameron over the state line on October the 15th 1910 [from Pittsburgh to Chicago].Johnson was granted bail ,set at an astronomical $30,000 .
Cameron went into the witness box and, admitted she was a prostitute of long standing and that it had been her idea to cross the state lines.

The federal agent on Johnson's case ,told his boss, "it has been established that the Cameron girl was in the City of Chicago for at least three months ,prior to the time she met Johnson,and the possibility that he aided in any way , her transportation from Minneapolis to Chicago is very remote".

It really didn't matter, Johnson was allready doomed , judged, convicted ,and sentenced.
Johnson has his music licence revoked ,and on appeal ,was told , he would have to prove he was of good moral character.
He could have been Francis Of Assisi, it wouldn't have made the slightest diffference.



My point was neither Sullivan ,or Corbett was censured for consorting with working girls.Sullivan lived with one for a considerable time.
Johnson did not own a ***** house, he owned a Cafe .
No one has ever proved , or seriously suggested that Johnson ever profited financially in any way from the women who lived with him.
In fact there are many testimonials, from Cameron and Bell Shreiber that Johnson funded their life styles, and gave them many expensive gifts.
I think this was the root cause of Johnson's down fall.

TOO HIGH PROFILE, he should have been like Joe Louis when he was f*****g Sonja Henjie The Scandinavian Skater,sneak in the hotel via the fire escape.
Johnson's big balls started his troubles, and they ended them eventually.

Ironic really.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI8ULU5Rv8Y&feature=related[/ame]

 

I think Johnson wanted easier fights than an improved Langford when he was champion, but I doubt he was truly scared or lacking in confidence. I believe he was confident that he was a better fighter.
Johnson seems like the kind of champion who really thought he was the best but he was also shrewd enough not to go overboard in trying to prove it.
He fought easier defences, and made money.

I think Johnson did okay with his troubles with the law. It gave him good reason to leave the USA for a while and enjoy life as a star in Europe. When he eventually came home to prison time, he was apparently treated like a celebrity anyway.

 

I said he was afraid of losing his title to a black man.
He was the challenger when he fought Johnson ,not the champion.

 

Johnson, and Jeannette seem friendly enough here. I note that both Jeannette ,and Johnson reiterate, that they met 9 times!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K6yDJ8s6Xs&feature=related[/ame]

 

"I read it some time ago, I beleive one of his working female friends was called May Sutton,personally I have no interest in a boxer's sex life or whether he pays for his fun,what interested me was the double standards applied in this case.
I wouldn't think any less of Langford as a fighter, if he slept with a 1000 hookers ,male or female."

Thanks, just curious, it wouldn't necessarily surprise me, I just didn't come across anythnig I thought was conclusive to substantiate this in my own research.

 

There was a fairly fine line between the ocupations of actress and prostitute in those days, so you have to be careful about inferring that a fighter used prostitutes.

 

I wouldn't pretend to know a tenth of what you must have researched for your well received book on Langford, but I don't suppose you were particularly focused on Sam's dalliances with," working girls".

This content is protected

 

"Johnson did not own a ***** house, he owned a Cafe."


The upstairs portion of Johnson's "cafe" was a ***** house. Ive never read anyone who has researched Johnson's life dispute that.

 

I think you may be referring to Johnson's private dining room . Can you think of who, apart from Johnson, who entertained women in there?
I can name a couple of his guests,Assistant D. A Harry Parkin, and Chief Of The Chicago Justice Department Charles Dewoody, doesn't sound too ribald really.
I haven't researched Johnson's life ,and don't have any knowledge of him ,other than what is freely available online, but it does seem to me Johnson, gets called a lot of things because of who he was , eg pimp,whoremonger, white slaver ,whereas other prominent figures largely get a free pass.

 

The Mustang Ranch was a "private dining room" also then LOL.

"it does seem to me Johnson, gets called a lot of things because of who he was , eg pimp,whoremonger, white slaver." ...if the shoe fits... If you own a house of prostitution, travel with prostitutes, etc. Then by very definition you are a pimp and whoremonger and by the parlance of that time a white slaver.

I think its sad that some misguided people have held Johnson up as some kind of symbol of the civil rights movement. By most accounts, even those of his friends, he was an ******* who thumbed his nose at society (and not just white society) and the law. I can think of a lot better people to look up to in the african american community.

 

Thats your version of a man you have never met,and your take on his Cafe.

John L Sullivan travelled with prostitutes ,so did Jim Corbett, Sullivan lived with one, leaving his wife for her I believe.
Anyone call either of them whoremongers,or pimps?

Wyatt Earp ,and Bat Masterson married them ,were they pimps?

I think you are forcing that shoe on a foot that it does not fit.

I don't think Johnson ever gave a thought to the consequences of his actions in regard to blacks or whites.

Johnson was for Johnson's rights ,not black rights, civil rights, or, any other rights

I think it presumptuous that someone can interpret a posters political ,and personal position on a fighter from one remark, but you be as judgemental as you like,it seems to be a habit with you.

I am not aware of anyone equating Johnson's activities with those of a Martin Luther King ,or some such figure, I would find such a comparison ludicrous myself. If we are talking sportsmen , Joe Louis did far more for black people imo.
Then he was labelled an Uncle Tom, so was Louis Armstrong.

Johnson had many vices, from what I have gleaned about him ,maybe more vices ,than virtues ,but there is no shortage of testimonials on his behalf from leading figures in the game.

People who actually knew him ,from boxers, like alcoholic Peter Maher whom he gave financial support to ,to journalists such as Nat Fleischer, and Denzil Batchelor .
I dare say Sam Mcvey would be positive about Johnson too, as he lived with him for some time.

The women who married him ,had nothing but good things to say about him.

Your opinion is as valid as mine, but just because you give it in such a pontificating manner, and so often , does not make it the definitive one.



It's been a long time since I looked up to some one , that would be my parents, not some sportsman I never met, of boxers I have admiration for Muhammad Ali, but I dont wear rose- coloured glasses at my age.

Now, stop wasting time , lecturing us, and finish that book.