Joe Joyce is now the defacto #1 HW

Yeah, the Sugar name grew on me. Always wanted to see him vs Vitali. Of course money would be on Vit, but it would have been interesting to watch.

 

Valuev had a more than decent jab, and I think gets sold a bit short on account of being so lumberingly slow and something of a feather-fist proportionate to his size. People instinctively want a giant like him to be caving mfers' skulls in, and that just wasn't his game. So a lot of the less flattering opinions in his day and since are probably down to disappointment in what he wasn't, more than honest assessments of what he actually brought.

 

I always wanted him to fight Vitali, too. Seriously.

Vitali and Valuev had a couple meetings face to face, with no promoters, trying to make it happen. I have the stories and photos saved on a hard drive somewhere. They just couldn't come up with the right money.

The Klitschkos were usually so much bigger than their opponents that they never seemed to get used to punches landing around their face. Any punch that came close to their faces had them flinching and stepping back with an alarmed look. It totally disrupted everything they did.

I always thought Valuev had the size to jab with the Klitschkos. And, if he jabbed with them, it would throw off everything they were trying to do (sort of like Fury eventually ended up doing with Wlad).

Same as the Eddie Futch strategy with Norton to just jab with Ali when Ali jabbed, or Carl Williams' strategy of jabbing when Holmes jabbed.

Ali, Holmes and the Klitschkos all had problems when someone jabbed with them, because they worked off their jabs. And if they got popped in the face when they threw their own jab, they all had to reset and start over.

I think Valuev against either Klitschko would've ended up being a really close fight, as a result.

 

Exactly. With someone that big, fans expect them to just obliterate people. He had good fundamentals. A solid chin. But he didn't hit in proportion to his size. So people just kind of dismissed him.

 

Very unfair that he came to be regarded as such a joke. Regardless of whether people thought old Holyfield and/or Haye deserved the nod against him, the mere fact that he was in close & competitive fights with both, as well as with Chagaev, not to mention victories over the likes of Liakhovich and Ruiz x2 (with a secondary line of Barrett, McCline, Beck and Donald) prove that his world ranking was no gimmicky fluke or anything.

Carnera reincarnated he wasn't.

 

I remember it being discussed a little. But nothing serious came of. Nic's jab wasn't too bad. A little slow, but that reach was something to keep in mind. I htink he'd make it interesting with either K bro. But their skill level was much higher. Definitely more in their arsenal. Kinda a missed opp, if even just to see two giants like that.

 

I think Fury lost his lineal claim in the eyes of many when he retired for 3 years so Usyk has as much claim as anyone at this point.

 

Kudos to Joyce for taking this fight when he's sitting in the mandatory position. No-one can accuse him of taking the easy route... a real fighting man!

 

This is absolutely true but it is worth noting that Klitschko fought in the shittiest division in the shittiest era that ever was shitty. Guys like Sam Peter who had no talent whatsoever were some of his BETTER opponent, the very best ones being guys like Sultan and Haye who had talent but were diminutive compared to Wlad.

Things were made worse by the fact that his brother was around drawing off a few decent, or at least intruiging guys like Gomez, Adamek, Briggs and Solis. Neither guy got Valuev in the ring, and there were a couple of fights on the the table (I am thinking of Moorer) that there was no effort to make, and they just dried up.

I mean, yeah, I give Wlad credit, but only so much, because it was not exactly hard for him to fight 2-3 times a year against guys who would be gatekeeepers in another era.

I cheered Wladdy on at the time, but in hindsight, there just should have been more to the era.

 

Here's what Valuev said why he never faced any of the Klitschkos:

Valuev claims the offer he was presented with was unsatisfactory. He says the Vitali offered him a million dollars to take the fight. Valuev felt the bout was worth a lot more.

Vitali was very eager for that fight and actually traveled to Russia to have a face to face discussion with Valuev.

But another item that bothered Valuev were the contract terms.

He claims the contract would have locked him down in a never ending circle. If he would have beaten Vitali, he claims the contract would have called for him to face Vitali in an immediate rematch, and if he would have beaten Vitali again - then he would have been contracted to face younger brother Wladimir Klitschko - and then if Valuev won he would have had to face Wladimir in a rematch. He says the contractual terms would have kept him fighting the Klitschko brothers until he lost.

"At that point I had just lost the title and then these talks took place. They were informal. We had a face to face talk, it was in Saint Petersburg," Valuev said.

He wasn't such a great fighter anyway, decent one - yes. But I believe him of what he says about the two crooks.

"In the event of my victory I had to fight Vitali again and I was alright with that - but if I won again then I still had to fight with his brother, and then again with his brother if I would have beaten his brother. I'd have to fight with the entire family. I had to fight until I eventually lost."

I don't see Valuev as more than a decent fighter, but I believe him of what he says about the two crooks.

 

If this is true then the K-Brothers were being unfair.
But is there any independent confirmation of them only offering these imprisoning terms?
I do not like the advantages that Wlad got, including being a clinch/pull-aholic.

But criminals? What evidence exists that they are literally crooks?
Also a small point-Valuev's skills as a fighter were only fair.
But due to his great natural size & punch resistence, he reached World Class level.

But I think he would have very little chance against Vilali.
Who would be able to easily reach & outwork him, with no real danger of being hurt.

 

I mean they were crooks in boxing, but even outside of it is not a secret - [url]Police implicate, link Klitschko brothers, other opposition members to Chornovol beating suspects (UPDATE) (kyivpost.com)[/url]. Anyway, not the first or the last time an athlete, especially a fighter, is involved with criminals.

Was it the case as Valuev said - we'll never know, I was just quoting his side of the story. But considering that when one Klitschko was losing, the other was coming to avenge - he might be right.

Would've been interesting matches him against any of the two. And I agree that it's mostly his size that made him a decent boxer, not some great skills, he doesn't even have good punching power.

 

Exactly. Not only was he banned for years (and as Steve Kim put it, if you fail to show up for your job for years, you no longer have that job) but he also officially retired last year. Whatever claim he and his fans thought of him having for lineal is long gone.

 

Interesting how beating Parker is enough to solidify yourself as #1 despite him already being heavily outboxed by AJ, beat by Whyte, going life and death with Chisora the first time and arguably losing and getting a robbery SD.

Joyce is good, but if your best win is Parker you cannot surely be crowned #1 just yet?

I'd go

Usyk
AJ
Joyce
Wilder
Ruiz

 

Agree with Miniq

Usyk (c)
#1 Joyce
#2 Fury (ducker and bs artist)