Sure his performances against Wilder deserve some credit though? He came out at like 40 and almost beat Wilder, No one has come that close besides Fury. Ortiz showed himself not much below Wilder level with those performances, and you can bet your bottom dollar than others that are considered top 10 wouldn't last as long vs Wilder than Ortiz did. Ortiz was the one who really first exposed Wilder IMO. He went after him and was unlucky not to get a stoppage victory in the first fight and was treat badly by the ref IMO. I don't know what Ortiz is going to be like now at 42, but I wouldn't right him off against anybody really. He has obvious skills and good stamina for someone his age. He doesn't fizzle out until the later rounds. He's in far better shape than Povetkin was, and look what Pov did!
He's been rated as high as top 4 by some people at certain points... Having beaten nobody better than Jennings. He's still widely regarded as being better than gatekeeper level despite having a far less impressive record than undisputed gatekeepers like Chisora. Obscenely overrated.
Wlad at 40 for me is a better conditioned athlete than Ortiz at 40, especially as we know Ortiz is on blood pressure medication. Just because Wlad whipped himself into great shape doesn't mean Ortiz is the same and even then Wlad did lose late in the fight vs Joshua, perhaps he was fading. 40 is old for any athlete in any sport especially if you have a cardiovascular condition like Ortiz. Maybe Ortiz can outbox Joyce but he may simply be outworked if it goes the distance. He faded both times vs Wilder if he can't finish it in the first half for me I can't see him stopping Joyce when he's more tired and vulnerable. Ortiz best hope is to land land a big counter on Joyce who can be easy to hit. Though Joyce seems more open to right hands than a left straight which is Ortiz power shot. But maybe he can catch him with the left when Joyce leans over to his right. Ortiz is dangerous there's no denying that but right now I can't favour him as Joyce has looked the better fighter of late while Ortiz hasn't fought anyone decent since Wilder so it's hard to gauge how much he last left.
Okay, and who else has Wilder actually beaten? Ortiz is Wilders best win, comfortably so, and if you're going to just assume that Wilder is elite because he held a belt then of course you're going to have to rate Ortiz for his performance against him. Or you could look at Ortiz lack of a serious record and decide that Wilders actual level is obscured by his refusal to step up and take on fights against genuine contenders in decent condition (which Fury wasn't for #1) leaves his level very hard to decipher because of the chasm between where his level is (better than Ortiz) and where it's not (equal to Fury). Sure, but Pov was actually a well proven fighter at the highest level and took the fights to prove it - even in far worse shape than Ortiz he'd have absolutely annihilated Luis.
If boxing history has taught us one thing it’s that you can’t put too much into a fighter who biggest matches were losses. I’ll go with Joe Joyce
You could argue that's because Wilder fought nobody good besides Fury. Ortiz's credit in two losing efforts entirely rests on how highly you rate Wilder, which is hard to do accurately, and when your best performances are losing ones that puts you in nothing higher than Carlos Takam territory. Possibly. There might be others who'd do even better or beat him. Wilder is still massively unproven so nothing firm can be drawn from Ortiz's respective performances against him. I'm not prepared to categorically rate someone based on speculation. That's all Ortiz's career is really built on. What do you mean look what Pov did? Pre-Covid he was in great shape for his age and still able to pull the trigger (which automatically puts him a level above Ortiz). Post-Covid he was in awful shape and got KOed. The two fighters and their careers aren't comparable.
Joyce rattles him mid/late and stops him Ortiz is too old Once he falls he has real trouble getting back up
It's really baffling to me how Dillian Whyte gets shat on for his winning record and Ortiz gets praised for losing. I think plenty on here would actually have Ortiz as favourite against him....? American HW boxing is absolute toilet and has been for the better part of two decades. The desperation for some sort of success has clouded the whole scene so badly that losing to Wilder twice actually props up Ortiz's Carrer in US eyes! None of this will age well.
Whyte's just one of those guys who'll always get dismissed no matter who he beats. And he's not good enough to look great in victory against the very best so he'll always give those who are determined to criticise him fuel to do so. Ortiz meanwhile continues to fight utter bottom of the barrel guys and blow them away, which apparently is enough to impress since it doesn't burst the bubble of delusion of this apparent killer that's been built up from some solid but far from spectacular wins over half a decade ago. It's a weird attitude since I'm sure many of Whyte's detractors bemoan the fact that top heavyweights don't fight each other enough, yet when one does and happens to take a few knocks and setbacks along the way he's mercilessly ripped for it. I dunno. Maybe it's just a nationalistic thing. Very silly attitude regardless.