Joe Joyce vs Mike Tyson 1988 version

Ì know Tyson lacked longevity, but let's make something clear

There is not a single heavy today that could beat Mike and that includes Usyk, who would get stopped

 

Usyk is better than Douglas.

 

He is, but rewatch the fight. Usyk would implement none of those physical/smother tactics. The same tactics Holyfield used

 

A prime Douglas is 6'4 with an 83 inch reach and he fought like an ATG in that fight.

Douglas at his very best would give Usyk problems you better believe it.

 

And here you are.

Right on time.


How long have you watched the sport?

Do you really think that Usyk being better than Douglas, has ANYTHING to do with a Mike-Usyk fight??


STYLES.


Usyk has NOTHING to have kept Mike off of him.

 

How many times is this myth going to be peddled. Usyk has plenty of pop in his hands. He hurt the giants Joshua, Fury, Dubois. He isn't going to be a stationary target that Tyson could u load on. The guy has never been knocked down let alone knocked out in his entire career amateur and professional.

 

Fury as been floored 8 times and hurt numerous times a 210 pound Cruiserweight Cunningham knocked him on the seat of his pants with 1 right hand.

Joshua got TKOed by an obese Ruiz.

Dubois was knocked down 3 times by a nobody prior to facing Usyk.

They're big yes but I wouldn't say their durability is amongst the best.

Usyk has some pop yes but hes a boxer/mover I don't see that as a good style against an ATG pressure/swarmer type fighter like Tyson.

 

If you’re a knowledgeable boxing fan, you debate on how they’d realistically have matched up on the night stylistically.


Now I love Usyk.

I’m literally one of his biggest fans.

I love his skills. The guy’s a genius. I love his mentality. His personality. The man is an absolute credit to the sport of boxing. And I’m glad he’s ‘The Man’ in the division, even though I’ve been a huge fan of Fury’s since 2008.


However, this is again looking at: Styles.


Usyk does not have enough power to have deterred or stopped Mike from getting up close to him.

He has respectable power.

But not any power to have stopped Mike from relentlessly pursuing and pressuring him.


He hasn’t got a huge, great jab that he could have kept Mike on the end of.


He hasn’t got immense strength, and great in-fighting skills, where he could have bullied or overpowered Mike on the inside.



Mike would have suffocated him on the inside. He’d have cut down his time and space. It wouldn’t have been a boxing match with 2 boxers.

Dubois and AJ have zero relevance to the debate.

Mike would have jumped on him and fought him aggressively, up close on the inside.

He’d have been switch hitting and going to the body.

He’d have relentlessly thrown huge power shots.

Power and speed that Usyk has never seen before.


It doesn’t matter who you think is/was better.

It doesn’t matter who you rank higher.

Usyk does not possess the required attributes to have been favoured over Mike at his best.


It’s a very easy fight to call.

 

Have we got any further comment on this?

 

What you describe could occur, but in an alternative universe, Usyk, who is much faster on his feet, avoids Tysons agression and takes Mike into deep waters. At that point Tyson's weak mentality, being a bully (styles, right? Usyk is mentally strong, Tyson is not), creates a situation where Usyk begins pounding in him like he did to AJ late. I can envision Mike fumbling around for his mouthpiece on the canvas. Or, being frustrated, Usyk gets his ear chewed on.

Mike's opponents often lost their fights before they got in the ring through intimidation. Do you think Usyk can be intimidated? I don't. Mike folded up before mentally stronger boxers like Holyfield, Lewis and Douglas. It's possible he also fold vs Usyk.

Did Mike ever fight a southpaw?

Meanwhile I like Mike enough to have already paid for tickets here in Dallas hoping to see him ravage Jake Paul. I also like Usyk enough to have gone to Riyadh to see him beat Belly. So I don't have anything either guy.

 

Why does Joe Joyce throw hooks without grounding his feet for power and twisting his upper body with the punch like how Mike Tyson throws them? It's like he just stands straight and moves his arms only for every punch.

 

People often say every opponent of Tyson was scared of him or Tyson wilted when he was tested but it's a false narrative.

Tyson went 12 hard rounds with Ruddock who was a huge puncher with both men throwing KO punches for the entire fight Tyson showed alot of heart in this fight and was tested.

Douglas had an ATG performance and was 6'4 with an 83 inch reach. Tyson again never quit in the fight and took his lumps until he finally was stopped by a ridiculous uppercut from Douglas. Tyson also managed to knockdown Douglas despite being at his worst with a ridiculous corner that didn't even have an enswell.

Holyfield was roided up and was physical on the inside vs Tyson. I don't see this as a comparison to Usyk as he would not fight Tyson the same way plus Usyk is not a dirty fighter like Holyfield was. Let's also not forget Tyson had been in prison and was clearly not the same fighter he was during his destructive 1980s reign.

Tyson was completely shot by the time of the Lewis fight and I don't see this fight has much relevance in regards to a 1980s version of Tyson. And again Tyson still never quit in the fight and took a beating before Lewis finally stopped him.

 

All true. Just looking at possibilities.

 

I'm not dissing Usyk BTW and I'm certainly not one of them nostalgic people who think every boxer in the older eras is better.

For example I think Usyk would be a very problematic style for Louis who was more static in his movement and had trouble vs movers.

But I think the way to beat Usyk is pressure and Tyson is an ATG pressure/swarmer.

We've seen Breidis have a very close competitive fight with Usyk with his effective aggression. We see Chisora make Usyk uncomfortable at times putting constant pressure on Usyk that's the way to beat him.

Usyk does have good movement and has some decent pop, but Tyson has a solid chin and for an aggressive fighter an exceptional defense. And I think Usyk would have trouble stopping Tyson's forward momentum not to mention Tyson is a fantastic body puncher and Usyk has shown a few times you can make him uncomfortable with body shots.

All in all I do think Usyk is a very good H2H fighter at Heavyweight and is capable of beating notable Heavyweights of the past. But I don't see Usyk beating Tyson in all honesty based on the stylistic match up.

 

How could Usyk have possibly have avoided his aggression though?

He doesn’t have the attributes needed to have avoided it.


Could Usyk have been intimidated? Well, he knows that Beterbiev and Dubois hurt him to the body. He knows that he barely beat Briedis where they fought for large parts at close quarters.


You really think that Usyk could have pounded away at him and have had him out of there?

It took a beat down by Douglas to get him out of there. And we know that that version wasn’t motivated, where he just went through the motions.

It took an 8 round beat down from Lennox to get him out of there. And when he was just a mere shell of his once great self.


I also don’t think that Mike lacked heart and was just a bully.

He came through adversity.

He didn’t quit against Douglas and Lennox.

He didn’t quit against Evander in their first fight.

And whilst we can’t condone his actions in the rematch, that was due to Evander intentionally and continually butting him.

We also saw him go to war with Ruddock in the final rounds.


No, he never fought a southpaw. But I just don’t see how a small, light punching boxer was going to beat a fast and powerful swarmer like Mike.

It would just have been a bad stylistic match up for Usyk.