Joe Joyce vs Rocky Marciano

Great post

 

It’s well known that PEDs help develop a more physically capable athlete. That is why they are banned. You asked for a source here are a few.


John Ruiz: “That's what sad about boxing. Basically, PEDs make a boxer last longer. They are not going to get tired when it comes to the late rounds. Boxers want their opponents to get tired so they can take advantage of it. If the other guy is on steroids and doesn't get tired, you're screwed. When it happened to me with Toney, it took away my opportunity to get bigger fights. But the people with me were astonished how well he [Toney] took my shots."


“According to veteran trainer Fiodor Lapin, Alexander Povetkin is not as strong or physically sharp as he was prior to his suspension-related to drug test failures.
"Until recently, I would have said that Povetkin was the favorite in potential fights against both Anthony Joshua and Deontay Wilder," Lapin recently told Vasily Konov via *******.com."Povetkin would have been the favorite, but after those situations and the two fights that he had - that's another Povetkin."Another Povetkin?"He used to get in earlier [with big punches], and his opponents went down, but now they do not go down, so now he is not in the form that was before the suspension," Lapin added.
"It's clear that there was no fight to be fought [in his last outing], but Hammer's level cannot even be compared closely with these fighters [at the top]. Yes, Povetkin unquestionably won against Hammer, but he lost the force in his punches and lacked accuracy."

Wouldn’t you say that boxers who did not make the grade before could theoretically make an impact with this kind of assistance?

 

1% of American men are 6’4”. https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-American-adult-women-are-6-feet-or-taller

The height of humans has not changed that much in the last 100 years. Parts of the world people are getting taller, but only to catch up with other parts of the world. The average height has changed very little over all. If the Overall population increases so does the overall average. If there are more tall people then there are still even more of everything else -hence “average”. It shouldn’t effect the percentage should it? I would assume the percentage stays the same.

But you asked for a source.

“Daily Mail, Myth debunked: Our medieval ancestors were just as tall as us says a new study

Judged by the height of the doorframes he built, medieval man was assumed to be vertically challenged. But after examining the bones of those who lived in the Middle Ages, scientists have discovered a much bigger truth.Evidence gathered from 3,000 skeletons reveals that human height has varied little over the past 1,000 years.From the 10th century through to the 19th, theaverage height of adult men was 5ft 7in or 170cm just 2in below today's average.”

 

I wanted a source for your statistics being the same regarding tall males.

 

If a big guy takes a banned substance to improve his pace then it gives him an advantage later in the fight when the smaller guy plans to take over once big guys traditionally slow down.

If a tall guy who naturally has thin arms and a long neck takes growth hormones to fill himself out into a better proportioned athlete with better developed neck and shoulders and stronger arms he will be better equipped wouldn’t he?

And this extra mass becomes more functional if he takes something else that retains speed and pace. Don’t you think this guy would have improved with measurable advantages than before?

Rounds have been shortened too. Gloves are bigger.

 

That's not a source which shows there the same percentage of SHW sized men.

 

you never asked for that. What I had said was-

to which you asked

and I answered with two sources, one where John Ruiz says he fought James Toney, a broken down veteran middleweight, who was able to not get tired and out hustle him.
“PEDs make a boxer last longer. They are not going to get tired when it comes to the late rounds” which totally explains it. Why on earth would a tall guy enhanced with band substance not benefit from something that allowed an old stager like James Toney to astonish John Ruiz with his tireless, durable efforts?

And another source where Povetkins former trainer says he was a better fighter when he was juicing. “he is not in the form that was before the suspension," so he is saying it made Povetkin a better fighter. Why not a tall guy?

But I have even more for you.

“Fight saga.
Sunday, 25 March 2018 02:48

Clenbuterol: What is this popular boxing PED?l

“So what is Clenbuterol?
For starters, Alvarez isn't the only boxer to have tested positive for the drug. Erik Morales did so in 2012 and heavyweights Lucas Browne and Alexander Povetkin have within the past two years.Clenbuterol was created to treat respiratory ailments so it can also enhance cardiovascular efficiency in athletes.Clenbuterol has been shown to to have anabolic (or body-building) properties too but they are secondary to its weight loss/fat burner attributes.Although the drug is not approved for human use in the U.S., its a near carbon copy of albuterol, which is commonly prescribed to treat asthma. In the U.S., Clenbuterol is only FDA-approved when prescribed by a veterinarian for use in horses.”-

And:

Doping In MMA – How Much Of An Advantage Does It Give A Fighter?- the stat zone.

We wanted to investigate how much illegal substances have actually enhanced performances. We have gathered data on every notable fighter that has been sanctioned and have compared their record before and after their ban, along with providing a table of information on each fighter. This is just for visual purposes and does not imply that fighters were using PED’s all the way up until their ban, and also does not imply that they have been clean after the ban for that matter.
The average win percentage before the ban was 78% and after it dropped to a staggering 45%. Just by glancing at the amount of losses after their ban and the drastic decrease in win percentages, surely proves that doping gives you a significant advantage. What must be taken into account of course, is the difference in sample sizes, as there have been far more fights in the ‘pre-ban’ category compare to ‘post-ban’, potentially skewing the results somewhat.

But if you want me to produce a source where somebody says PEDs help develop a more physically capable athlete of that size then I could also ask you to produce a source that says “PEDs Do not help develop a more physically capable athlete of that size”.

 

May have missed something but I'm not sure why you guys are debating average heights/ the proportion of big men when the increase in the absolute number of big men--specifically, those with access to the sport of professional boxing--is far more important. The world likely has a LOT more big men today than it did even 60-70 years ago. Furthermore, as the demographics of the heavyweight division reveal, the sport is now accessible to talented big men from places where their predecessors would have had been far less likely or able to pursue careers in professional boxing (fighters from the former Soviet countries, Cubans, black Americans from the South, etc.).

 

You might be confused about the conversation I was having. I explicitly asked for a source to back up the second sentence, re read that sentence and then please provide a source for it.

Cheers mate.

 

I’m not debating that. I debating the point that the more physically capable an athlete can be on illegal substance will benefit tall guys too.

I am asking him to produce a source that says “PEDs Do not help develop a more physically capable athlete of that size”.

 

I totally agree with this which is why the percentage of SHW men will be bigger now.

 

Yes I addressed that. PEDs develop a more capable physical athlete. That includes big guys who previously did not feature so much in the division as well as drugs cheats like James Toney and others who bulked up to get into it.

 

The percentage of men over 6’4” is 1%.

 

Yes, yes you're right. Let's leave it there.

 

Yes, yes you're right, let's leave it there.