Joe Joyce vs Rocky Marciano

But not too big to fight him. Marciano beat Contenders and champions within their weight.

 

Marciano would have his guts for garters. Joysce is too slow would would get pelted with jack in the box like attacks from Rock like there was no tomorrow.

 

They are bigger than him but at what point is it significant enough to matter?

There's a lot of variables in terms of how they clash stylistically, how much they can use their size advantage, whether or not Rocky can bulk up to nullify that advantage.

Rocky is a CW, that's how he should be seen imo, however he seems to be the only CW in history where people insist he isn't allowed to add any extra weight got for the fight.

 

All of the head to head matchups on this forum take fighters as they actually existed, not as they might have become with additional training and eating. I don't know why Marciano should be treated any differently, but it seems like some guys around here always want to give him another 15-25 pounds of muscle in these threads.

PS - There's a pretty big difference between some of the big guys who had to make weight to fight at cruiserweight vs. little guys like Marciano who naturally fought well under 200, but that's beside the point.

 

I think that if you are prepared to pick Joyce at this stage, then you are basically saying that size is the only thing that is important!

 

If Golovkin signs to fight Groves next, would we all be imagining a fight between a 160 pound fighter and a 168 pound fighter?

History shows it's quite rare that people move up in weight without actually adding weight so as you say, no reason to treat Rocky any different.

If people like to imagine fights between two men weighing 60 pounds apart, that's up to them, but I don't see the point.

Of course it's beside the point, there's lots of unknowns here. But if you're gonna insist someone must be at least 60 pound lighter than you are putting them at a great disadvantage.

 

That might seem obvious to you but there a lot of folks in this forum who would disagree. And that's really the point of threads like this.

 

There's a reason why people add weight when they change weight class.

Holyfield did not stay at 190 to face Douglas. Spinks did not stay at 175 to face Holmes. Jones did not stay at 160 to face Ruiz, neither did Toney. Even Fitzsimmons added weight. Langford was another who added weight.

Weight is not the only factor, if it was Shkor would have beaten Rocky, but it is a big factor which is my most people add it themselves when moving up in weight.

 

But as you know, Marciano was already a heavyweight--just a tiny one by modern standards. He wouldn't be changing weight classes in a matchup like this, so your analogies to Holyfield, Spinks, and Jones don't work.

 

I've never seen anyone actually able to explain what these advanced modern methods are.

 

Exactly, Usyk and Gassiev are 1970s Ali/Foreman sized in height and reach. To fight at heavyweight all they'd have to do is leave the water in their system prior to the weigh in and they are already 210-20 pound heavyweights. If Rocky Marciano was cutting weight like modern fighters he could weigh 168 and be back in the 180s by fight time.

 

I'm not mad on Joyce.
I think he's pretty ponderous and seems to place his punches, nothing special.
He's big though.

 

I have never bought into the idea of Marciano being able to cut weight.

That basically assumes that he could combine the most extreme aspects of his 1950s training regime, with a 21st century weight cutting regime, and still be a viable fighter.

I suspect that he would be starting from a higher starting point today, albeit he would not be a big cruiserweight.

Even fighting at cruiserweigth, he would probably be bulking up to about 205.

Whatever the case, I doubt that the cruiserwigth division could contain him for ever!

 

Seems extremely unlikely that Marciano would have started his career above 175lbs today, and 168 wouldn't be out of the question. He'd probably move up to cruiserweight eventually though.

 

I don't think that people quite understand how he was getting to 185-190 in his own era.

Put him on any training regime that would be considered reasonable today, and he is starting out well past 190.