Joe Louis '41 vs. George Foreman '73

No, it does not mean that. Their jabs might be argued as comparable or at least as tools with different purposes, but — as stated in what I believe was my first reply to you — George Foreman, especially Foreman of '73, was excellent at catching, parrying, muffling or otherwise nullifying his opponents jab with the extended rear hand that was a staple of Sandy Saddler's style. That was exactly what killed Norton — he couldn't establish his own jab in any way and was eating George's own Liston-esque jab. He decides to trade power punches and gets blown out as a result.

 

Foreman's own excellent jab and his style of disarming and nullifying his opponent's jab was precisely what killed Norton.

Foreman of Ali fight, fight fraught with circumstances, was concerned only with muffling Muhammad's punches, hence the constantly extended hands, and battering him to get what he believed would be a quick knockout. Power drunk fool he was that night; turning himself into a crude caricature of his usual self. Nuff said. Lyle bout on the other hand was his first true fight after Zaire and we all know that he wasn't all that back then, hiring new trainer and having his mentality broken.

The first one is actually a good example. The latter two were more of an exception, although granted his jab was underutilized at times.

 

The problem with this technique is that it makes you open to other punches and every single punch thrown by Louis hurt the same way. Speed disadvantage doesn't help Foreman either.

Again, you bring up solid points but I don't think it solves this matchup.

 

Wow, of the first 34 voters I am only one of two to think the fight would go to a decision.

 

Yes and no. Old George made good utilization of the cross armed defense which was quite effective. Yes he still got beaten up in some fights despite that. Young foreman’s defense was almost exclusively his offense. And sometimes throwing those looping shots left him open for counter attack. That said, anything can happen when you put two of the most dangerous punchers in the same ring together

 

Which punch in particular? Extended rear hand could potentially make you more vulnerable to the left hook since your glove wasn't there to block it, but Foreman was actually very effective at nullifying left hooks through leverage guards and shoulder/biceps stops which once again extended rear hand encouraged.

Granted, this matchup is extremely dangerous and Foreman's style pretty much aimed at the fighters colliding with each other. His stance and guard encouraged "choking" his opponents offense, but by preemptively stifling said offense he could produce spectacular, soul shattering victories which made the other guy look helpless, or he could end up getting hit, since his defense was purely active and hence relied extremely heavily on his reflexes.

Chins would be tested and bodies would be broken in this matchup, that's certain. All in all one of my favorite fantasy fights — shame to see that it's sometimes watered down to Louis will counter Foreman's swings versus George will walk him down, when in fact there are multiple intricacies to consider here.

As for George's defense, since I feel like it's being underrated a little bit in this thread (his Zaire and post-Zaire performances likely being responsible for his image of being hittable), this is what Micheal Moorer had to say about George in THE RING' Best I Faced:

BEST DEFENSE
George Foreman: George was hard to hit clean. He had those long, big arms. It was hard to get a real flush shot on him because his defense was pushing, extending his arms, and you had to get by that.

I always found that bit interesting.

 

Louis made 20+ successful defenses.
70s Foreman made two successful defenses.
Louis was comfortable going 15 rounds.
70s Foreman failed to win a 12 round decision.

Louis knocks Foreman out.

 

George Foreman.
Has Joe Louis ever had an opponent like George Foreman?
Georg Foreman is not a Max Bear, but a monster of the next level.
He would simply overpower him.

 

Has George Foreman ever had an opponent like Joe Louis?

 

You’d have to be delusional or never actually seen either man fight to pick George Foreman over Joe Louis.

 

Joe Frazier

 

Past prime Joe Frazier who fought nothing alike Louis? Then I can name Max Schmeling or Max Baer as well.

 

Past prime Joe Frazier who fought nothing, but Muhammad Ali.

 

This doesn't change anything I wrote. Frazier wasn't similar to Louis and 1973 version of him wasn't close to peak Louis in terms of class either.

 

Do you think the fight would be Foreman'73. Vs Frazier '71. ended differently than their two fights?