Joe Louis and the Magnificent Seven

No you haven't.Mike Jacobs pitched his prices low for the Lewis fight very low because he was concerned that two blacks wouldnt draw.Louis' purse was just $34,000 pre tax and he had to deduct his training expenses from that.
If Jacobs thought he could make comparable profits having Louis fight black challengers he would have made the fights! The only big purse Louis made with a black challenger was the 2nd Walcott fight.

ps I find it the height of irony that you question John Ochs credentials ,but are happy to post Clarence George's missives!
WTF is he!

 

Brad Dexter is the wild card.

 

He could see out of both eyes but was losing the lateral vision in one ,can you not read?
Louis made nearly $400,000 more for his rematch with light heavyweight Conn than he did for the second Walcott fight! Langford, Valentino,Frazier, Greb ,Norfolk fought with vision in one eye.
"On the way out"?
Eight months before he challenged Louis ,Lewis spotting him 15pounds stopped Elmer Ray !

Both Klompton and myself have read Ochs books you haven't!
You don't know WTF you are talking about!

 

I disagree with the premise of the article.

I think that most of magnificent seven did not get a title shot, because they simply weren't quite good enough.

Most of them either failed to penetrate to the top of the rankings, or only did so during the war, when the available opposition was considerably diminished.

Out of the group you have two realistic challengers for Louis, namely Lem Franklin, and Elmer Ray.

The best that you could say for the rest of them, is that you wouldn't have held it against Louis if he had given them a title shot.

Perhaps Louis takes a bit of flak because of the previous champions who drew the color line?

Perhaps we are getting to a point where any black contender who did not get a title shot, is being built up retrospectively into an avoided fighter?

 

Louis defended against John Henry Lewis taking him out in the opening round,8 months earlier Lewis had stopped
Elmer Ray.Franklin being stopped by Pastor,Bobo,and Muscato in consecutive fights put paid to any title pretensions he might have had.
Franklin beat one top ten rated man Abe Simon and he lost to Pastor,Bobo,Dorazio,Savold,Muscato.
MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING!

 

There was no significant pre war challenger of the group, apart from Franklin, and he was not exactly a standout.

If I had been around at the time, I would have been saying that Franklin was a worthy challenger, but that he blew it.

Post war Walcott is the obvious standout.

Elmer Ray was a very good challenger in hindsight, but we base that assessment on his wins over Walcott and Charles.

If you don't know that Walcott or Charles will go on to win the title, then how good does Ray really look at this point?

I would have been saying, that he was a contender built on weak opposition, who had won one and lost one, with a couple of more adventurous contenders.

 

Louis defeated
John Henry Lewis
Jimmy Bivins
Joe Walcott 2x once was debatable
Lost to Ezzard Charles

He also defeated Roscoe Toles
In a bout that was an exhibition in name only

And also handled Lem Franklin each time they fought in exhibitions

Considering the era he fought in I have no issue with the men Louis faced during his reign

 

The use of language is interesting. The men Louis fights are bums. Seven men Louis doesn't fight are The Magnificant Seven.

These are not even the top seven black contenders. Roscoe Toles and Buddy Walker should be on any such list.

How well did these seven do?

Thompson was a WWII contender who lost twice to Pastor and 2 of 3 to Pat Valentino. He drew with your bum Musto.

Trammell was never rated at all while Louis was champion. He fell out of the ratings with KO's by Tiger Jack Fox and Eddie Blunt, and then lost to Toles and Walker.

Murray lost at his peak to Johnny Flynn. Also to Toles, and Melio Bettina.

Franklin was KO'd by Pastor, KO'd twice by Savold, and beaten by Durazio and Musto of the bums.

Curtis Sheppard lost to Musto and a ton of others. He had a big KO of Maxim, but still lost to of 3 to Maxim.

Harry Bobo was KO'd by Bill Poland, who was never rated at all, and lost 2 of 3 to Dorazio.

Ray is the only one who looks like a really top contender, but he lost a key re-match to Walcott and so Walcott got the shot. Ray could have, and perhaps should have, gotten a shot, but in the end he did come up short in key fights with Walcott and Charles.

What Louis is really being criticized for is for defending his title so many times pre-war. He not only fought the top contenders, but some second-tier guys. So the game is now dragging second-tier guys from years later to compare with these early second-tier guys. But Louis didn't have to defend against any of the so-called bums. It would have been sufficient in 1941 to defend against outstanding challengers Conn and Nova. The rest is supererogatory.

By the way, I think a good case can be made that one could pick out seven white contenders to match these. What about Melio Bettina who beat Jimmy Bivins, Tiger Jack Fox, Harry Bobo, Lou Brooks, Buddy Walker, Curtis Sheppard, and Eddie Blunt. Or Joe Baksi. Or Lee Savold.

 

Y

You throw the term "avoiding" around gratuitously. Louis was in the military from 1942 to 1945. Accept that. He was not free to defend his title. When he returned, an older fighter, he fought four fights against number one contenders from 1946 to 1948. He certainly did his duty as champion. Here are the top five Ring rankings with an * for someone Louis fought.

1937
Champ-Louis
1---Max Schmeling*
2---Tommy Farr*
3---Nathan Mann*
4---Alberto Lovell
5---Tony Galento*

1938
Champ-Louis
1---Lou Nova*
2---Max Baer*
3---Bob Pastor*
4---Tony Galento*
5---Maxie Rosenbloom

1939
Champ-Louis
1---Tony Galento*
2---Bob Pastor*
3---Lou Nova*
4---Tommy Farr*
5---Max Schmeling*

1940
Champ-Louis
1---Max Baer*
2---Arturo Godoy*
3---Red Burman*
4---Abe Simon*
5---Buddy Walker

1941
Champ-Louis
1---Billy Conn*
2---Lem Franklin
3---Bob Pastor*
4---Melio Bettina
5---Abe Simon*

1942-1945 in military service

1946
Champ-Louis
1---Tami Mauriello*
2---Elmer Ray
3---Jersey Joe Walcott*
4---Bruce Woodcock
5---Lee Q Murray

1947
Champ-Louis
1---Jersey Joe Walcott*
2---Elmer Ray
3---Lee Q Murray
4---Pat Comiskey
5---Joe Baksi

1948
Champ-Louis
1---Jersey Joe Walcott*
2---Ezzard Charles*
3---Lee Savold*
4---Johnny Flynn
5---Joey Maxim

White contenders not fought--Maxie Rosenbloom, Melio Bettina, Bruce Woodcock, Pat Comiskey, Joe Baksi, Johnny Flynn, Joey Maxim

Black contenders not fought--Buddy Walker, Lem Franklin, Elmer Ray, Lee Q Murray

Latino contender not fought--Alberto Lovell

#1 contenders not fought--none

Interesting point--Jimmy Bivins was never a top five contender in any year in which Louis was active.

My picks as the top three fighters not defended against--Elmer Ray, Melio Bettina, and Joe Baksi.

So I see no color line evidence at all, nor any evidence that Louis wasn't meeting the best of his time.

 

Mike Jacobs interviewed by John Lardner in1938. JL "Will you allow Louis to defend against Roscoe Toles?"
M J" Louis draws the color line, maybe he don't know it but he does""Why do I bar Toles and Lewis? Because they wouldn't draw flies thats why" John Lardner Winnipeg Tribune October 8th 1938
"Louis Draws Color Line Against Roscoe Toles, So He Hears".
page1172 Vol 2 The One Is Jack Hurley by John Ochs.

Abe Simon got the nod to challenge Louis because he beat Toles.