Joe Louis and the Magnificent Seven

Jack Curley actually paid him $31,500 if memory serves. My source is Adam Pollack's book onJohnson vol2
"The Reign".
Here is some background leading up to the fight.
"New York promoters were offering Johnson only$15,000 for a 10 round bout with Jeannette.
Joe would earn $5000.Jack said he would fight Jeannette if a guaranteed purse of $30,000 was posted".

"Hugh McIntosh offered $30,000 for a Johnson fight with McVey,who was coming off his victory over Langford.Johnson said he would accept as long as the money was deposited in a reliable bank before he left Chicago.
On December 30th it was reported that Johnson had agreed to fight McVey in Sydney on or about Easter MondayApril 8th for a purse of $30,000 plus $5000 training expenses.McVey's victory over Langford made it a lucrative bout.
Johnson said," McVey is made to order for me, furthermore I will meet,JimFlynn ,Al Kaufman,Carl Morris,or Al Palzer before I leave ,for any distance,if the promoters will give me $30,000 for my end."

Unfortunately Sydney's clergy immediately began agitating for the prohibition of the McVey fight. Fearing a repeat of what had taken place in England[The proposed Wells fight,],businessman interested in the fight engaged legal counsel to test the contests legality to ensure they would not be investing money ina venture that could not proceed

Once again it appeared another potential Johnson bout might be de-railed by opposition.
Promoter Jack Curley offered Johnson a flat fee of $30,000 to fight Jim Flynn in July 1912 as long as Curley retained all of the motion picture rights or $20,000 plus training expenses and a 33% interest in the films.
Negotiations were ongoing.
As a result of all the opposition to the fight being held in Sydney Johnson received notice that the McVey match would have to be held in France and moved to June23 instead of April.Of course that was very close to a potential Flynn fight.Johnson would not be able to do both.Between the two the Flynn fight made more sense because it involved less risk for the same money."
"Promoter Jim Coffroth also said he would give Johnson his $30,000 to fight Flynn.He said," Flynn is fighting in remarkable form,his showing against Kaufman entitled him toa chance at the championship".
Here is the bit you want to see.
"On January 6th Jack Johnson and JimFlynn signed articles to fight inJuly1912 with the exact date to be set in May,ina fight to the finish.Johnson would be paid a guaranteed$30,000,$1,100 forexpenses,and 1/3 of the moving picture rights." Pages 579 and 580 "Jack Johnson The Reign" Adam Pollack.

 

Then, he got word that he could be matched with heavyweight champion Joe Louis in a 6-round exhibition. He first had to beat a fighter by the name of Tex Boddie, and a beating was just what Tex got. Just 6 months after losing to Ezzard Charles, Ray gave Boddie a one-sided thrashing while looking like his old self again. Ray looked like a rhino on a rampage. He rushed at Boddie with both fists pumping out like jackhammers and stopped him in the 4th round. Ray had finally captured a chance to show what he could do with Louis and it wouldn’t be a sparring session this time.

Louis stated, “If Ray shows enough against me in Miami, and if the public thinks he’s a good contender, I’ll be satisfied to have him as a contender for the title.” Ray and Louis were scheduled for their exhibition on January 25, 1949, at Miami’s Orange Bowl. The bout was scheduled for 6 rounds with each round being 2 minutes long with both men wearing 14 oz. gloves. A crowd of 12,211 paid a handsome gate of $35,658.80 to see Ray and Louis in action. From the opening bell, Ray took the fight to Louis and remained the aggressor throughout the bout. Ray bobbed and weaved, slipped and ducked scoring at times but Louis piled up points with his telephone pole of a left jab.

In the last round, they stood and exchanged blows to finish out the fight. Of course, no official decision was made because it was an exhibition but sportswriters did give their scoring of the fight. A poll of sportswriters all agreed Louis had won but Ray had put up an interesting fight. In the end, Louis had some swelling under his left eye while Ray’s right eye was swollen from Louis’ left jabs. Louis laid on a rubbing table, calm, relaxed and ready to answer questions. Someone asked if Ray ever hurt him, Louis replied: “No, he didn’t hurt me. Only landed one good one – a right hand just before the bell. Came up out of that crouch and caught me. But I did what I wanted to. I saw that right of his coming a couple of times and stopped it with a left jab. That Ray shouldn’t have any fat around the middle with all those exercises he does out there.”

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Next door to Louis, Ray was disappointed he couldn’t drop Louis but was happy with his performance. “I think I shook him up a little. I thought the whole fight was about even. It might have been different with lighter gloves…. I tagged him a couple of times,” said Ray. Some of the local papers were impressed with Ray’s showing and they weren’t alone. The Brown Bomber seemed to think Ray put up a good enough performance for another fight too. Ray and Louis met again in February of 1949 in another exhibition, for 4 rounds this time. However, the golden rule of never facing Louis twice was still in effect.

Ray didn’t do as well as he had in their previous bout and a right cross in the 3rd round put him on ***** street. Ray never hit the canvas and there was no count due to the rules in place, but the referee stood between the two for about 8 seconds to make sure he could continue. Ray finished out the fight, but he was disappointed. A week after the exhibition he got a solid win over Sid Peaks, stopping him in the 9th round. Unfortunately, the celebration was short lived.
Two weeks later Ray would lose in a shocking upset to Kid Riviera, followed by a stoppage loss to hard-hitting John Holman. Truth be told, after his loss to Ezzard Charles, he had lost a lot of his desire and motivation to fight. Ray was covered with a blanket of frustration; the end of his fighting career was near and he knew it. Then, just eight days later, the final blow was struck, ending Ray’s boxing career. Ray fought another exhibition with Joe Louis and suffered a concussion when Louis knocked him out in the 4th round. “I ain’t gonna fight no more as long as I got that concussion. I’m through. I’ve just fought too many fights too often recently. I fought a 10-rounder in Miami a week before my last bout. I got my good health and I’m going to keep it,” Ray said afterward

 

Yeah seems like Louis was terrified of him.

 

Louis's actual record is impressive enough, but he also seems to have frequently granted prospective contenders exhibitions, which were essentially short fights.

This was a man who rules the division with an iron fist!

 

Moving pictures could explain how the promoter expected to make money.

It is certainly hard for me to believe a live gate at Las Vegas, New Mexico could have amounted to that much.

 

I think Curley barely broke even on the deal. I don't know where Coffroth proposed to put the fight on, California?
The whole scenario makes me smile when I hear "civilians." glibly talk about a fighters legacy.
Johnson is offered $30,000 plus $1,100exes plus 33% movie rights to fight at home against a man he had knocked out cold for 4 minutes with one right hand ,or to travel halfway around the world for the same money to fight a guy 3 times as good..Which one should he take? Toughie!
Its like asking Anthony Joshua look here's £20,000,000 to fight Deontay Wilder in the US or the same money to fight Victor Ustinov at Wembley,which one do you want?lol

Where was all this talk about legacy when these fellas were retired, working as porters and trash collectors , some of them half blind or worse living on handouts in one room garrets?

 

What is the point of the last paragraph. It is fine for the champion to duck his top contenders?

"working as porters and trash collectors, some of them half blind or worse"

And this justifies the champion not defending against these men? Langford is one who ended up blind. Perhaps if he had gotten a shot at the title and won it and then had some big championship paychecks he wouldn't have had to fight when his sight was in jeopardy.

I don't see where this is going. I thought the point of a sport is competition. Burns might have made more money by avoiding Johnson and just fighting a lot of pushovers for less money per fight, but more in total when all added up. Where would Johnson have been then?

 

Mendoza

Mcveys piece above is meaningless. He exhibiting which took place in 1949 was when Ray was 40 years old, and by that point he had so many health problems in 1948 his manager had advised him to retire. He would lose to an unknown journeyman directly after his exhibition with Louis, he was well over the hill in 1949.

However,

Louis refused to box exhibitions or even spar with Ray in 1946 claiming that Ray "didn't know how to fight an exhibition" and one of them was liable to get hurt, and in spite of Ray compiling a 50 fight winning streak. The period of 1946-1947 is when this fight should have taken place especially since Louis took off over a year from the muariello fight to the Walcott right in December of 1947

Louis waited until ray was near retirement before he boxed an exhibition with him in 1949

But janitor and Mcvey are trying to make arguments Tami Mauriello was somehow on the same level as Elmer Ray which I think is preposterous.

 

I've proven dozens of times, including in this very thread that Johnson signed to defend against McVey.Langford and Jeannette,but he wanted his price to meet them ,when he got it he took out his pen!
Anyone who wants to **** on him for taking a gimmee against Flynn for $31,000 is not only extremely naïve ,but does not have even a tenuous grasp about how boxing is operated.
Langford was half blind as early as 1917 he spent money like water and his manager gambled away several of his purses on the horses if he had won the title ,he would just have spent 3 times more money . As a boxer he was perhaps a genius as a man rather childlike.


Burns asked for and got an unheard of $30,000 to defend against Johnson,that's the sole reason the fight got made!

The point of boxing is £$£$£$£, always has been and always will be! Sport ? Do me a favour! It has as much relevance to sport as football!

 

Joe Woodman Sam Langford's manager advised him to retire in1917 I told you this but you dismissed it because it didn't suit your agenda of accusing Dempsey of ducking him.
Can we now be clear on this you are saying Louis was scared to spar with Ray in 1946? He waited until Ray was old and in poor health before taking a chance with him is that what you are stating here. You say this, and then use the word preposterous?The irony!!!

50 fight winning streak? Have a look at the names on it .Shades of Lamar Clark!
After being kod in 1 round by Thompson in March 1943 until Sept 1946 Ray did not fight a single ranked contender.
If you have Mendoza ,Louis's chief hater as company, boy are you in the ****!

 

Langford had a lot more left in the tank in 1917 compared to ray in 1949. Langford continued to fight on for many more years still defeating good fighters, while Ray retired that year

Secondly, if Dempsey was afraid to fight a guy whose manager advised him to retire because he had slipped so badly, what does that say about Dempsey that he can’t beat a “shot” fighter?


And you’re wrong. Perk Daniels was top 10 in the world when Ray beat him, I have the monthly issue. Daniels made the top 10 after defeating Turkey Thompson his previous fight

As for the Lamar Clark Comparison, it’s not a good one.



And in his 50 fights against upper-tier journeymen, the accounts routinely describe how the other guy was never in the fight as Ray chased him down or bounced him off the floor like a basketball- note that several of these guys were able to give other contenders serious trouble or beat them, such as Sid Peaks, who beat Lee Q. Murray and Jimmy Bivins (I believe Peaks was in the top 10 when Ray beat him), Daniels (top 10j, who beat Thompson and Sheppard, McAlpine, who had a reputation for durability and gameness and had just taken Comiskey to a split decision. Leroy Haynes, who defeated primo carnera twice. Willie Reddish, who defeated Roscoe Toles. Chaney, who beat Lee Oma. Ray went out there and crushed these guys almost every time, wiped out Savold (who all the other contenders were going the distance with and having a heck of a time beating) like another club fighter, then defeated both Walcott and Charles,and aside from the Thompson rematch lost only to Walcott and Charles, then only in highly-competitive fights.

 

Langford was half blind in 1917

Dempsey refused to fight him in1916 when he was sparring partner for Carl Morris and just 19years old.
Would you put Daniel Dubois or Nathan Gorman in with Anthony Joshua at the moment?


Perk Daniels the legend!

 

laugh at Daniels but Daniels beat Turkey Thompson, and nearly beat him in the rematch. Thompson was one of the best heavyweights of the 1940s.

How does Mauriello do against Thompson? Thompson was a massive puncher with an iron chin. Mauriello loves to brawl. I don’t think Mauriello does very well here

Maybe if Perk Da